Carbon poker - reporting showdown hand that wasn't showdown

[Meteoric]

HEM 1.11.06g

This shows as a showdown hand when it wasn't, probably thrown off by some weirdness with seat 3 (who on the replay is left in when he went out pre)

<description type="Holdem" stakes="No Limit ($0.02/$0.04)"/>
<game id="35589145-531" starttime="20110604041300" numholecards="2" gametype="2" realmoney="true" data="20110604|Santiago (35589145)|35589145|35589145-531|false">
	<players dealer="1">
		<player seat="0" nickname="akng888" balance="$4.94" dealtin="true" />
		<player seat="1" nickname="titos111" balance="$4.90" dealtin="true" />
		<player seat="2" nickname="kingpokerz" balance="$4.00" dealtin="true" />
		<player seat="3" nickname="JaerBear" balance="$7.41" dealtin="true" />
		<player seat="4" nickname="R3G7Nice" balance="$4.24" dealtin="true" />
		<player seat="5" nickname="hua625" balance="$3.18" dealtin="true" />
	</players>
	<round id="BLINDS" sequence="1">
		<event sequence="1" type="SMALL_BLIND" timestamp="1307178778125" player="2" amount="0.02"/>
		<event sequence="2" type="BIG_BLIND" timestamp="1307178778540" player="3" amount="0.04"/>
	</round>
	<round id="PREFLOP" sequence="2">
		<event sequence="3" type="FOLD" timestamp="1307178786601" player="4"/>
		<event sequence="4" type="CALL" timestamp="1307178794535" player="5" amount="0.04"/>
		<event sequence="5" type="FOLD" timestamp="1307178800800" player="0"/>
		<event sequence="6" type="RAISE" timestamp="1307178807746" player="1" amount="0.18"/>
		<event sequence="7" type="CALL" timestamp="1307178811155" player="2" amount="0.16"/>
		<event sequence="8" type="SIT_OUT" timestamp="1307178836156" player="3"/>
		<event sequence="9" type="SIT_IN" timestamp="1307178838012" player="3"/>
		<event sequence="10" type="SIT_IN" timestamp="1307178839630" player="3"/>
		<event sequence="11" type="CALL" timestamp="1307178839900" player="5" amount="0.14"/>
		<cards type="HOLE" cards="2c,2d" player="2" hand="Pair of Twos"/>
	</round>
	<round id="POSTFLOP" sequence="3">
		<event sequence="12" type="CHECK" timestamp="1307178844444" player="2"/>
		<event sequence="13" type="BET" timestamp="1307178846525" player="5" amount="0.29"/>
		<event sequence="14" type="CALL" timestamp="1307178862142" player="1" amount="0.29"/>
		<event sequence="15" type="FOLD" timestamp="1307178862427" player="2"/>
		<cards type="COMMUNITY" cards="Jd,3h,9c" hand="Pair of Twos"/>
	</round>
	<round id="POSTTURN" sequence="4">
		<event sequence="16" type="BET" timestamp="1307178866712" player="5" amount="0.58"/>
		<event sequence="17" type="CALL" timestamp="1307178868710" player="1" amount="0.58"/>
		<cards type="COMMUNITY" cards="Jd,3h,9c,7d" hand="Pair of Twos"/>
	</round>
	<round id="POSTRIVER" sequence="5">
		<event sequence="18" type="BET" timestamp="1307178872356" player="5" amount="1.16"/>
		<event sequence="19" type="FOLD" timestamp="1307178873866" player="1"/>
		<cards type="COMMUNITY" cards="Jd,3h,9c,7d,3s" hand="Two Pair Threes and Twos"/>
	</round>
	<round id="END_OF_FOLDED_GAME" sequence="6">
		<event sequence="20" type="MUCK" timestamp="1307178874528" player="5"/>
		<winner amount="3.37" uncalled="false" potnumber="1" player="5" pottype="n"/>
	</round>
	<round id="END_OF_GAME" sequence="7">
	</round>
</game>

[netsrak]

Please zip and mail the original handhistory files (you find them in the HM archive folder or in the handhistory folder of your poker client) together with a link to this thread and an explanation of the problem to support@holdemmanager.net. We will then try to reproduce the problem.

[Meteoric]

it's all in the post above.

[netsrak]

Is it the original file?
From which site is the hand?

[Meteoric]

The irrelevant hands are deleted, but it's effectively the HH file (I left in the first line which is the first line of the HH files)

The site is Carbon poker, which is on the Merge network

[Patvs]

It's a showdown hand.. because according to the handhistory the player in the BB (JaerBear) never folded.

<event sequence="8" type="SIT_OUT" timestamp="1307178836156" player="3"/>
		<event sequence="9" type="SIT_IN" timestamp="1307178838012" player="3"/>
		<event sequence="10" type="SIT_IN" timestamp="1307178839630" player="3"/>

If only it would just state he folded:

<event sequence="x" type="FOLD" timestamp="1307178800800" player="x"/>

and this shouldn't occur.

This is a bug in the Merge handhistories caused by Merge. (maybe because the player in the big blind had connection issues....) But even then the handhistory should have just mentioned he folded, otherwise HoldemManager is thrown off.

[Meteoric]

it's true that you don't see the FOLD event, and it seems the sit in/sit out actions were the cause of the problem (& like you say, a bug on Merge's part).

However it's quite clear from the events at each street that he isn't involved in the hand (and he's definitely not all-in pre), plus you don't see the SHOWDOWN round at the end, which would surely be the definitive decider as to whether it's a showdown hand or not.

Here's a hand that is showdown, and you see the SHOWDOWN round at the end;

<game id="35593111-372" starttime="20110604052207" numholecards="2" gametype="2" realmoney="true" data="20110604|Santiago (35593111)|35593111|35593111-372|false">
	<players dealer="0">
		<player seat="0" nickname="LaimonasLT" balance="$7.26" dealtin="true" />
		<player seat="1" nickname="tarantinosQ" balance="$7.06" dealtin="true" />
		<player seat="2" nickname="MrSnuggles" balance="$4.00" dealtin="true" />
		<player seat="3" nickname="bsik22" balance="$3.30" dealtin="true" />
		<player seat="4" nickname="R3G7Nice" balance="$4.72" dealtin="true" />
		<player seat="5" nickname="kingpokerz" balance="$4.35" dealtin="true" />
	</players>
	<round id="BLINDS" sequence="1">
		<event sequence="1" type="SMALL_BLIND" timestamp="1307182926591" player="1" amount="0.02"/>
		<event sequence="2" type="BIG_BLIND" timestamp="1307182927177" player="2" amount="0.04"/>
	</round>
	<round id="PREFLOP" sequence="2">
		<event sequence="3" type="FOLD" timestamp="1307182930355" player="3"/>
		<event sequence="4" type="FOLD" timestamp="1307182934740" player="4"/>
		<event sequence="5" type="FOLD" timestamp="1307182935000" player="5"/>
		<event sequence="6" type="FOLD" timestamp="1307182946087" player="0"/>
		<event sequence="7" type="CALL" timestamp="1307182946491" player="1" amount="0.02"/>
		<event sequence="8" type="CHECK" timestamp="1307182950113" player="2"/>
		<cards type="HOLE" cards="Ad,5s" player="5" hand="Ace High"/>
	</round>
	<round id="POSTFLOP" sequence="3">
		<event sequence="9" type="CHECK" timestamp="1307182957174" player="1"/>
		<event sequence="10" type="CHECK" timestamp="1307182960385" player="2"/>
		<cards type="COMMUNITY" cards="8c,6h,Td" hand="Ace High"/>
	</round>
	<round id="POSTTURN" sequence="4">
		<event sequence="11" type="CHECK" timestamp="1307182965592" player="1"/>
		<event sequence="12" type="CHECK" timestamp="1307182970560" player="2"/>
		<cards type="COMMUNITY" cards="8c,6h,Td,4d" hand="Ace High"/>
	</round>
	<round id="POSTRIVER" sequence="5">
		<event sequence="13" type="BET" timestamp="1307182976746" player="1" amount="0.08"/>
		<event sequence="14" type="CALL" timestamp="1307182980327" player="2" amount="0.08"/>
		<cards type="COMMUNITY" cards="8c,6h,Td,4d,7c" hand="Eight High Straight"/>
	</round>
	<round id="SHOWDOWN" sequence="6">
		<event sequence="15" type="SHOW" timestamp="1307182980743" player="1"/>
		<event sequence="16" type="SHOW" timestamp="1307182981051" player="2"/>
		<cards type="SHOWN" cards="5h,3h" player="1"/>
		<cards type="SHOWN" cards="9h,3d" player="2"/>
	</round>
	<round id="END_OF_GAME" sequence="7">
		<winner amount="0.23" uncalled="false" potnumber="1" player="2" hand="Ten High Straight" pottype="n"/>
	</round>
</game>

[Patvs]

The HoldemManager import could then conclude since the "SHOWDOWN" section doesn't appear in the handhistory there was no showdown.

But our importer isn't that 'smart' to then realize why there was no showdown.
(and conclude it must have been because JaerBear folded)

We can program the following:
SIT_OUT + SIT_IN + SIT_IN---> really means fold
But what would happen if he had called?

SIT_OUT + SIT_IN + SIT_IN + CALL = he called!
SIT_OUT + SIT_IN + SIT_IN (-FOLD) = FOLD
or maybe had he called it would also appear as:
SIT_OUT + SIT_IN + SIT_IN = Call?

Or if JaerBear only had 0.04 cents (because he lost 99% of his stack the previous hand)... a situation would arise he would have been automatically forced all-in. And I don't know how that would appear in the handhistory.
Or how it would appear combined with this Merge bug.

So this really is an issue Merge has to fix.