NC Speed Comparison
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  1. #1
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    Default NC Speed Comparison

    Hey guys,

    I was playing arround lately with a new computer and used the oportunity for some testing. I want to share my findings.

    I was using a Notebook with an Intel i7-4720MQ for some time and switched to an Desktop Computer with an i7-5820K which I overclocked to 4.2 GHz @ all cores. Thats a mild overclock which should be possible with most 5820Ks by just increasing the v by 0.1v

    I took my database with approximately 5 million hands in it and did a backup of it to ensure the same basics were given on both systems:

    Notebook: i7-4720MQ @ 3.4 GHz @ 4 Cores/ 8 Threads, 16 GB DDR3 RAM @ 1600 MHz, Samsung SSD 850 Pro 512 GB
    Desktop: i7-5820K @ 4.2 GHz @ 6 Cores/12 Threads, 16 GB DDR4 RAM @ 2133 MHz, Samsung SSD 850 Pro 256 GB

    Windows 7 64 energy setting to max. Performance (important!), PostgreSQL 9.2 with the following Speed Adjustments:

    shared_buffers = 2048MB
    effective_cache_size = 4096MB
    work_mem = 64MB
    maintenance_work_mem = 64MB
    commit_delay = 10000
    checkpoint_segments = 128
    checkpoint_completion_target = 0.9
    wal_buffers = 16MB

    I did a fresh boot between each run, let Windows 7 idle for a minute and did reimport the old backup of DB to ensure a maximum camparability in the results followed by another reboot. As you migh imagine this takes some time, but as DB speed degenerates over size of the DB i think it is important.
    I opened HM2, opened the NC tab in it and waited till it appeared bevore i started HH import. NC was set to use Turbo Hand Grabber + saving notes each 10,000 Hands and i took the number immidiately displayed after the saving proces of the last 10k hands block.


    The exact values per CPU are:
    i7-4720MQ : 524 FR; 668 SH H/s
    i7-5820K : 595 FR; 790 SH H/s

    This is a comparison of the HM2 import speed, which mostly depends on the Single Core Performance of a CPU as HM2 does not use more. Overclocking one core of the 5820K further to 4.5 GHz ended up in import speed of 821 H/s. I did import HH for FR and SH, which are totaly new for the DB. I did several runs of this and the import speed changes +-20 H/s in each run e.g. by random freezes for half a second. I took the last number after completed import and an average of the collected numbers.




    The exact maximum values per CPU are:
    i7-4720MQ : 73 @4 Threads ; 84 H/s @ 8 Threads
    i7-5820K :109 @4 Threads ; 128 H/s @ 8 Threads ; 138 H/s @ 12 Threads

    After the import i let NC process the Hands. I am using arround 2,100 note definitions which is comparabel to the note packages you can buy here. I redid the whole procedure of importing backup and import Hands for each different setting of threads used in NC settings. Took some time...

    You can see that with 4 really existing physical cores on both systems NC speed scales well with the frequency of the CPU and the IPC of the cores (The 5820K has a larger cache on the CPU and the platform is faster by using DDR4). NC can however also use some Hyperthreading ti increasy the speed slightly.

    The results just changed by max +-3 H/s when i redid a specific run.



    The exact maximum values per CPU are:
    SATA II SSD OCZ Vertex Plus 120 GB: 752, 135
    SATA III SSD Samsung 850 Pro 256 GB: 790, 138

    And this is the most interesting finding for me. I uninstalled postgreSQL and installed it on an old SATA II SSD with just 120 GB. These small SSDs are slower than bigger ones and the SATA II interface is also slower than SATA III, so i expected a huge jump in performance.
    But the results let me sit there speechless. I redid the test 3 times and even physically unplugged the SATA III Samsung 850 Pro from the system to ensure HM2 just uses the old SSD and that i did not do any mistake.

    I mean here are the two SSD compared in a benchmark, i would expect more of a difference:

    Unfortunately the old SSD died shortly after my tests and i am not able to do any more comparison or look further into this. If anyone has his hands on 2 different SSDs and can copy my results i would really like to hear about it.

    I would really like to hear your opinion on this, as i think it leads to the fact that CPU performance is the only bottleneck when it comes to note processing.

    Unfortunately i donīt know how to measure the time untill stats appear on the tables while playing. By opening a Hand in HM2 replayer with me on the last position where stats are loaded, i can just estimate it was about 5-10 % quicker with the faster SSD until all stats were there.
    The time for switching between report tabs and filters and opening a specific Hand in the replayer until all stats are on the table was arround 20 % faster on the Desktop System. Again, i donīt know how to measure it exactly.

    I did also test the nc speed for optimized vs stock SQL settings, which was 138 H/s vs 131 H/s.


    I hope this helps some persons who can not decide which system to buy and how this will result in speed improvements.

    For now I can just say it is best to get a system with maximum IPC at a single core for HM2 (Intel way stronger than AMD) and many cores for NC. For the SSD just pick an actual SATA III with at least 250 GB size, as the premium paid for something like a 850 Pro seems to have little effect.

  2. #2
    NoteCaddy sreticentv's Avatar
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    Thank you for sharing this. I will link this thread to people inquiring which happens very often
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  3. #3
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    I was playing around lately and did some testing after I had lags opening up big popup windows filled with >90% nc stats (but no composit stats) during a session of 16 tabling on stars. I am not processing notes during play and my system is optimized following Alan Jacksons guide. Just HM2 + TableScanTurbo + Pokerstars open. Firewall and Antivirus rules set following the guides. HM2 ramcap set to max.

    Before each session i restart HM2 as that helps to avoid the lag for some time. But after 1-2 hours of playing the popups need more and more time to open, sometimes freezing the HUD and even let me time out on the table. After 2 hours i definately have to take a break, process the notes of the new hands and restart HM2.



    While i was searching for a solution i found an old thread with someone having the same problem:
    http://forums.holdemmanager.com/note...ups-delay.html

    He stated that even using a ramdisk the delay opening a popup window exists. You answered him that the SSD speed is the bottleneck in this case. I did some of my own testing and wanted to share it with you.

    I got my hands on a rapid fast Intel 750 400 GB SSD, which is currently the fastest consumer driver you can get for 4k read/writes and should perform well for db tasks. I am running normally a Samsung SSD 850 Pro 512 GB.

    I mirrored my db for testing and found out, that both the ms in the log files for finding stats and opening a popup and the time until stats appear on the table were very very close. That was surprising as the Samsung is just an SATA 3 drive and the Intel is an NVMe PCIe 3.0 drive.

    So the storage speed is not a bottleneck, what also explains that the guy in the linked thread was not successful with a ramdisk.
    To find the bottleneck i changed the core frequency of my CPU and the result was, that a 10 % increase in speed of 400 MHz to 4.4 GHz did result in approximately 10 % faster HUD loading times. The CPU single core speed and IPC seems to be the bottleneck when opening up popups and loading notes from the db.
    The overall CPU usage of my 6 core system was under 20%, the 16 GB RAM were filled 65 % at max.

    Please don't get me wrong, this post it not ment to complain about performance as I was using a large db and lots of notes. I did the testing out of my technological curiosity, but wanted to share my findings as it was interesting to me.

    For now my old recommendation persists. For HM2 and notecaddy, get a CPU with maximum single core IPC like the i7-4790k or the i7-6700k at high clock rates, 8 GB of RAM and a cheap SSD 250 GB or bigger. If you want to process many notes the more cores the better, but on the tables the only important thing is the single thread performance.

  4. #4
    NoteCaddy sreticentv's Avatar
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    Thank you for updaing this thread with more detailed information
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  5. #5
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    Do you have any idea what could be done to improve the performance? From my understanding one CPU thread processes the cached data in the Database Parent Folder and is limiting the speed of the HUD. But this process is not calculating but just collecting data. I am not using fancy composite definitions.
    And why is it getting slower of the time of a poker session? The popups open up with just a short delay in the beginning of my sessions, but it is lagging crazy after 2 hours playing. I don't let notecaddy process notes while i am playing.

  6. #6
    NoteCaddy sreticentv's Avatar
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    Is the memory utilization going up during those hours?
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  7. #7
    Senior Member BubbleBoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by strikerman View Post
    Do you have any idea what could be done to improve the performance? From my understanding one CPU thread processes the cached data in the Database Parent Folder and is limiting the speed of the HUD. But this process is not calculating but just collecting data. I am not using fancy composite definitions.
    And why is it getting slower of the time of a poker session? The popups open up with just a short delay in the beginning of my sessions, but it is lagging crazy after 2 hours playing. I don't let notecaddy process notes while i am playing.
    I only understand half the technical talk but I have the same issue of increasing popup loading time after every HM2 restart.

    My fix is restarting HM2 fully during play, but it seems like whatever data I'm flushing should just be auto-flushed by HM2.

  8. #8
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    My point is different. My popup loading time is not increasing with a restart of HM2. It is increasing during playing/session. It is getting better by restarting HM2.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by sreticentv View Post
    Is the memory utilization going up during those hours?
    HM2 uses between 3.5 - 5 GB of my 16 GB RAM during a session. I watched it today and i think there is a relation between freeing up memory and the freezes at the tables/HUD. In the moment the memory utilization drops, both the HUD and the tables freeze. Is that possible?

    After another session it feels like there is definitely a relation between memory use and the freeze. The memory usage of HM2 went up to 6.5 GB and drops down to 3.5-4 GB once or twice a minute. And when this happens the HUD and the tables freeze for some seconds.
    CPU usage is at <20% (6 Core CPU) all the time, and there is at least 6 GB of free RAM available all the time.

    RAM.png
    Last edited by strikerman; 03-08-2016 at 02:55 AM. Reason: another session:

  10. #10
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    sreticentv, what is HM2 or nc doing in the moment the RAM usage drops down? Rebuilding the cache? BTW I have the 2 last options in nc settings->HUD disabled. Update HUD immediately and Update cache immediately, both disabled. Maybe that matters in this case.

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