Action Sequence involving blinds and effective stacks

[Valhalla]

Hi,

I'm finding lot of trouble to make definitions with effective stacks for any kind of actions involving the blinds. I would really appreciate if anyone could clarify this for me.

My main problem is with the action sequences, because I'm getting mixed instructions within the notecaddy manual and the indications of some threads at the HM and assaultware forums. Let me explain:

Imagine I want to make a definition where the small blind makes an open push with an effective stack between 7-9 bbs.

As it's said on the notecaddy manual, and at the video "Test Environment", I can use the Test Environment to see the actions of the players involved in the hand, and follow that when doing the action sequence of my definition. So, if I check one hand like this one at the test environment I get this.

TestEnvironment.png

So, I understand I should put on the action sequence at least these ones: post small, post big, openshove. Right?

But then, it turns out that when putting these, Notecaddy doesn't read right the effective stacks. So I searched over the forums looking for threads with similar problems and what i've found is some threads saying that you shouldn't put the "post small" or "post big". Take a look at this one, for instance.
http://forums.holdemmanager.com/note...e-problem.html

You have an unnecessary action in your pre flop sequence. When you say "hero has to post bb", then that's what effective gets applied to. Surely you mean to apply it to the shove. However, specifying his position in the shove as you did makes it descriptive enough to render your "post sb" action redundant. NC always applies the effective to the first note recipient action specified in the sequence so just delete the first action and it should work

I also asked something like this at other thread http://forums.holdemmanager.com/note...ml#post2156542 and Sretiventv kindly answered me:

Effective stack counts from when the first action by the note recipient is performed per the sequence. You can get around the issue you're having by specifying the position of small blind in the pre flop->general tab rather than the action sequence

Ok... so I should eliminate the post small/post big actions from the sequence actions box, and just make the shove as the first action in the general tab that is made from the sb, right?

But, then again, at the tutorial Making a definition covering big blind steals - Assaultware Wiki it's said you have to include at least the heroPostBig (in this definition the steal could come from more positions than the sb, so makes sense you don't have to put post sb) and it says that the order is very important too:

tutorial.png


So, maybe I'm missing or missunderstanding something (english is not my first language so it could be that I'm getting lost in translation...), but, right now, I'm totally clueless about if I should include post small or post big in my definitions or not. That one I wrote earlier (openshove from sb) is just one example, but there are more definitions I want to work on that includes the bllinds, and where I need the effective stack to be count on, so I can't give one specific example or hand... besides, I don't want help to make one definition, what I actually want and need is help to understand how these situations work, how are they read by notecaddy, and when should I include a post small or post big action -and in what order-, and when should I not...

Hope I've explained myself well enough with my very bad english... thanks for the help!

[HossendeHaai]

So, I understand I should put on the action sequence at least these ones: post small, post big, openshove. Right?

Post small and post big happened, but you don't need to specify that. You can specify the position of the note recipient is the small bland and it has to have been folded to him preflop, which leaves just the big blind as logical opponent.

Ok... so I should eliminate the post small/post big actions from the sequence actions box, and just make the shove as the first action in the general tab that is made from the sb, right?

Correct.

But, then again, at the tutorial Making a definition covering big blind steals - Assaultware Wiki it's said you have to include at least the heroPostBig (in this definition the steal could come from more positions than the sb, so makes sense you don't have to put post sb) and it says that the order is very important too

You're missing something here.

Effective stack counts from when the first action by the note recipient is performed per the sequence.

The big blind in that example is not the note recipient but the hero, and it needed to be specified because the definition is for

"steals hero's big blind"

So if you pay good attention the Wiki and Sreti's answers are completely in line, although it might be a bit complicated stuff.

So, maybe I'm missing or missunderstanding something

Correct

when should I include a post small or post big action -and in what order-

To summarize: you never need to include the post small or big blind for the note recipient, because you can specify his position in the preflop -> general tab. You only need to specify post small / big blind, when you want to be specific about that player (i.e. had to be hero or a specific stacksize). Every hand starts with the posting of blinds, so you do this at the start of the sequence.

[Valhalla]

Perfect! Now I see what I got wrong. Thank you very much!

[Valhalla]

Hey, HossendeHaai... I have another related question:

If I specify post small/big blind on the Preflop>General Tab... what about that "Position" pull-down menu on the Action Sequence Tab? should I filter there as well? or better if I don't touch it?

Here, I mean:

position filtered.JPG

Thanks!

[sreticentv]

Hey, HossendeHaai... I have another related question:

If I specify post small/big blind on the Preflop>General Tab... what about that "Position" pull-down menu on the Action Sequence Tab? should I filter there as well? or better if I don't touch it?

Here, I mean:

position filtered.JPG

Thanks!

Yes, leave it alone as that's superfluous. The only time you want to use blinds as the position in the action sequence is when it's not the note recipient. For example, Steals hero's blind where the hero is SB/BB but the note recipient is the guy stealing.