Conflicting EP VPIP Advice

[abelian]

Immediately after running the full analysis, the Step 1 'recommendations' window says I am opening too many hands from EP.

Then on step 2, I get different information. I get an A+, but also get the potential leak icon. When I select the Early UP PFR row, the LB Advice table tells me I am not opening enough from EP.

So, I am either opening too little, too much or just the right amount.

Any chance the step 2 recommendations are looking for 6-max numbers, whereas step 1 and the big table are looking at FR numbers? (I am playing/analyzing FR fwiw).

screenshots attached.

[Leak Buster Support]

Yeah thanks for bringing this up. We're going to make this language more clear because it's obvious it's creating an issue. The advice in step 1 is different than step 2. Step 1 it's looking at things like your positional awareness combines with other factors, so if this high it could be coming back and saying you need to open more from early position. So this language needs to be clarified, but it's not a conflict.

What it's telling you in the first screen is that based on your other positional awareness if skewed (and this needs to be clarified). The second screen in step 2 is a potential leak simply because the winrate of what your stat is, is much lower than other areas. You have an A because you're within a range this is profitable, but you'd do better by opening a few more hands (mouse over the green dots to see the winrates).

Hope that makes sense, and we will correct this to make it more clear.

[abelian]

Step 1 it's looking at things like your positional awareness combines with other factors, so if this high it could be coming back and saying you need to open more from early position.

Well, this is a little confusing as well.

I am not sure what LB means by positional awareness. It is also listed in my screenshot, but this is another place where I have an A+ and a leak at the same time (the advice does say my positional awareness is a little high).

The LB advice on PA only says I need to adjyst my opening ranges, but not how.

[QUOTE]mouse over the green dots to see the winrates[\QUOTE]

What do the dots mean? And what is the +/- for in the advanced section? I don't see anything in the manual about them.

And as for EP, is LB trying to tell me that I need to open the same size range, but open different hands? Or because my PA is high, that the gap between my EP and LP ranges is too wide (9.2 in EP and 38 OTB)?

[Leak Buster Support]

Well, this is a little confusing as well.

I am not sure what LB means by positional awareness. It is also listed in my screenshot, but this is another place where I have an A+ and a leak at the same time (the advice does say my positional awareness is a little high).

The LB advice on PA only says I need to adjyst my opening ranges, but not how.

Download the manual here. Read the section on scoring. The grades are scored on how you are in relation to the LB recommended ranges. The number score is a combination of factors and based on winrates for the stat range your analyzing. The reason we added the grades was only to let people know that you can be profitable playing this style, but ideally you want to move your stat into a higher or lower range IF you have a low number score. This will become more clear soon when LB is even more integrated with HM.

Pre-flop positional awareness is a ratio of your early position opening play to your late position opening play. You can read more about it in the HM manual. The higher this number is, the more you are playing hand in position, as opposed to out of position. But there's also an ideal range where you don't want this to be too high. Otherwise you're missing value from early position.

mouse over the green dots to see the winrates[\QUOTE]

What do the dots mean? And what is the +/- for in the advanced section? I don't see anything in the manual about them.

And as for EP, is LB trying to tell me that I need to open the same size range, but open different hands? Or because my PA is high, that the gap between my EP and LP ranges is too wide (9.2 in EP and 38 OTB)?

There is a hand chart that suggests what ranges to adjust to. Mose over the dots, they are showing you the average winrates. Click +/- and you'll see the line graph expand or contract. And you can answer any of these by browsing through sections of the manual that you're having difficult with.

If you have any more questions, support will be back Monday and they'll do their best to help you out (closed today for Halloween).

[abelian]

Download the manual. Read the section on scoring. The grades are scored on how you are in relation to the LB recommended ranges.

Yeah. I did this already. It does help explain the overall LB scoring, but didn't help me understand how the PA value was determined, or how I needed to adjust my range.

Pre-flop positional awareness is a ratio of your early position opening play to your late position opening play.

Specifically is it my BTN UO PFR / EP UO PFR?

My value from LB for PA is 4.14 (which is pretty close to 38/9.2 = 4.13).

The semi-lose ratio (using the hand chart) is 4.18 (11.3 in EP and 47.2 in LP), which seems very close. The ratio for the tight range is 3.76 (9.5 and 31.8).

I guess I am still having trouble figuring out what LB is suggesting I change. I can likely fit into the tight range by tightening up on the CO and BTN a few pct points, but my winrate score for both of those positions are 10s, so that seems wrong.

Mouse over the dots, they are showing you the average winrates. Click +/- and you'll see the line graph expand or contract. And you can answer any of these by browsing through sections of the manual that you're having difficult with.

As for the dots, I didn't see anything in the manual about them.

I also notice that the winrate for the red dots appear higher than those for the green dots (on average), at least for positional awareness. Also 2 out of 3 winrates for the green dots are negative, so that's confusing me a little. It looks like a higher PA gives a higher winrate, based on the winrates of the dots.

Is the expanding and contracting (using the + and -) just a UI preference element, or is there some statistical reason I should be setting it one way or another?

Also - thanks for replying back on a Sunday (and a holiday to boot). I definitely appreciate it.

[Leak Buster Support]

Yeah. I did this already. It does help explain the overall LB scoring, but didn't help me understand how the PA value was determined, or how I needed to adjust my range.

If you had a specific question about the scoring, I'll do my best to answer it. I think it explains in detail what it's doing, without specifically giving out the algorithm of how it scores. Positional awareness is a HM term. They have a glossary of terms here: FAQ - Hold'em Manager Poker Tracking Software :: Stats Definition for Report TAB

If you have a leak with your ranges, it's going to provide a starting hand guideline to help, and will also show you more specifically which hands are costing you the most in step 4. So you can use these together in order to figure out which hands you should look to cut out of your range, and which other hands are generally profitable from each position.

Specifically is it my BTN UO PFR / EP UO PFR?

As per HM FAQ it's: Ratio of your PFR on the button vs PFR from early position when unopened

My value from LB for PA is 4.14 (which is pretty close to 38/9.2 = 4.13).

Yes, you may have a minor leak here if this is 6-max. If it's Full ring, it's probably ok.

The semi-lose ratio (using the hand chart) is 4.18 (11.3 in EP and 47.2 in LP), which seems very close. The ratio for the tight range is 3.76 (9.5 and 31.8).

I guess I am still having trouble figuring out what LB is suggesting I change. I can likely fit into the tight range by tightening up on the CO and BTN a few pct points, but my winrate score for both of those positions are 10s, so that seems wrong.

This is for full ring correct? If those are your stats you're not opening too much from EP. I'm having the developer look into this, but for right now, focus on the step 2/3 advice. I'll see what the developer says and get back to you.

[quote]
As for the dots, I didn't see anything in the manual about them.

I also notice that the winrate for the red dots appear higher than those for the green dots (on average), at least for positional awareness. Also 2 out of 3 winrates for the green dots are negative, so that's confusing me a little. It looks like a higher PA gives a higher winrate, based on the winrates of the dots.

[quote]

There should have been a section. I think this was edited out for some reason. It's letting you know what the average winrates are for that range. It shows you what the range is, and what the winrate is.

Is the expanding and contracting (using the + and -) just a UI preference element, or is there some statistical reason I should be setting it one way or another?

Also - thanks for replying back on a Sunday (and a holiday to boot). I definitely appreciate it.

You're welcome. The +/- is just a way to expand and contract the line graph in case it's hard to read. That's all it is.

[abelian]

This is for full ring correct? If those are your stats you're not opening too much from EP. I'm having the developer look into this, but for right now, focus on the step 2/3 advice. I'll see what the developer says and get back to you.

Yeah, this is for FR.

There should have been a section. I think this was edited out for some reason. It's letting you know what the average winrates are for that range. It shows you what the range is, and what the winrate is.

What determines the color for the dots? It looks like there is a strong relationship between a much higher PA value. The avg winrate for the red dots is 1.55 bb/100 while the average winrate for green is -.26 (-1.55 for blue).

[Leak Buster Support]

Yeah, this is for FR.



What determines the color for the dots? It looks like there is a strong relationship between a much higher PA value. The avg winrate for the red dots is 1.55 bb/100 while the average winrate for green is -.26 (-1.55 for blue).

They are just separating high, low, and recommended ranges.

[abelian]

They are just separating high, low, and recommended ranges.

I guess my question is why is LB recommending a range that appears to have a lower avg winrate?

I am assuming LB is recommending I stay w/in the green dot range and not venture out into the red too much.

[Leak Buster Support]

I guess my question is why is LB recommending a range that appears to have a lower avg winrate?

I am assuming LB is recommending I stay w/in the green dot range and not venture out into the red too much.

Because these winrates are much more difficult to maintain, and the sample sizes of players that venture into these realms profitably is much smaller than the other profitable ranges. The data is there to show you that you can play profitably outside of here, but expect that it's going to be much more difficult to do so. A simple example is there are players that can play profitably at 30% VPIP, but the number of people who do this is very small, but it can be done. It's best to get yourself into the profitable ranges first, and then as you lean you can venture looser or tighter in certain areas.