Error in equity calculation with side pot

[bfc]

HEM reports me as being all-in on the flop with 26.2% equity and calculates EV diff accordingly. However, 26.2% was my turn equity (the other two players went all-in on the turn). My equity on the flop, when I went all-in, was 48%.

I won the pot (120.50-3.00 rake) and HEM incorrectly reports the EV diff as -86.7 which is 117.5*(1-0.262).

Not a serious bug, but a bug nevertheless.

***** Hand History for Game 1111111111 ***** (Full Tilt)
$100.00 USD NL Texas Hold'em - Monday, August 02, 03:12:06 ET 2010
Table Boss (shallow) (Real Money)
Seat 1 is the button
Seat 1: Player1 ( $69.70 USD )
Seat 2: Player2 ( $30.00 USD )
Seat 3: Hero ( $40.00 USD )
Seat 4: Player4 ( $20.00 USD )
Seat 5: Player5 ( $20.00 USD )
Seat 6: Player6 ( $53.40 USD )
Seat 7: Player7 ( $38.00 USD )
Seat 8: Player8 ( $47.00 USD )
Seat 9: Player9 ( $73.10 USD )
Player2 posts small blind [$0.50 USD].
Hero posts big blind [$1.00 USD].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Hero [ Ad Kd ]
Player6 calls [$1.00 USD]
Player7 folds
Player8 folds
Player9 raises [$3.00 USD]
Player1 folds
Player2 folds
Hero raises [$8.00 USD]
Player6 calls [$8.00 USD]
Player9 raises [$18.00 USD]
Hero calls [$12.00 USD]
Player6 calls [$12.00 USD]
** Dealing Flop ** [ Js, 8d, Qd ]
Hero bets [$19.00 USD]
Player6 calls [$19.00 USD]
Player9 calls [$19.00 USD]
** Dealing Turn ** [ 8s ]
Player6 checks
Player9 bets [$14.00 USD]
Player6 calls [$13.40 USD]
Player9 shows [Qs, Ks ]
Hero shows [Ad, Kd ]
Player6 shows [Tc, Ac ]
Player9 wins $0.60 USD
** Dealing River ** [ Th ]
Player9 wins $26.80 USD from main pot
Hero wins $117.50 USD from main pot

[Patvs]

email us the original handhistory

also Please update to the latest version - http://www.holdemmanager.com/downloads/HmBetaUpdate.exe
and try reimporting the hand into a NEW database.

It doesn't look like a bug... since the other two players have larger stacks than you...
it complicates EV. Since the scenario also exists where one of the other stacks FOLDS on the turn and we never get to see his cards.

[bfc]

Thanks very much for the prompt reply.

E-mail sent. I'm using v 1.11.03 which I understand is the latest version.

I appreciate the difficulty of calculating equity in multi-way pots when there is still action pending and that the definition of AI equity would be unclear if an opponent folded the turn. I retract my statement that this is a bug and am happy to accept that HEM calculates AI equity only at the point when there is no further action possible (i.e., on the turn in my example).

This, however, is certainly not how I think of my all-in equity. My thinking is that I got my money in good (48% equity 3way) whereas 26% would be getting my money in bad.

If this is the definition of all-in equity then there seems to be an inconsistency in the street on which I was all in and the street where equity calculated (HEM reports me as being all-in on the flop but equity is calculated on the turn).

[Patvs]

Similar topic:http://forums.holdemmanager.com/mana...tml#post165974

This, however, is certainly not how I think of my all-in equity. My thinking is that I got my money in good (48% equity 3way) whereas 26% would be getting my money in bad.

If on a later street, one of the other players folds...., who knows maybe he had the best hand preflop.

In your hand, they didn't fold.
So we can tell you your EV (based on a 3-way preflop allin). But... if we assign you this EV...., and we can't correctly assign you EV when one of the other two players fold (in other hands)--> it completely messes up the longterm EV line.

So the best solution is to NEVER give you allin EV, if the betting between two other players continues. This may appear strange..... and seems to screw up your EV for this ONE hand (where you had the best hand)--> but it'll lead to the best longterm accurate EV line.

[Patvs]

Can you rephrase your question.... we'll use the topic for discussion.. instead of email too.



Full Tilt Poker Game #22779905260: Table Boss (shallow) - $0.50/$1 - No Limit Hold'em - 15:12:06 ET - 2010/08/02
Seat 1: roncha8 ($69.70)
Seat 2: XantharAce ($30)
Seat 3: catbedead ($40)
Seat 4: Weity99 ($20)
Seat 5: Flying Diamond ($20), is sitting out
Seat 6: terenzino ($53.40)
Seat 7: StoneBuddha21 ($38)
Seat 8: 17enigma17 ($47)
Seat 9: arts65 ($73.10)
XantharAce posts the small blind of $0.50
catbedead posts the big blind of $1
The button is in seat #1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to catbedead [Ad Kd]
terenzino calls $1
StoneBuddha21 folds
17enigma17 folds
arts65 raises to $3
roncha8 folds
XantharAce folds
catbedead has 15 seconds left to act
catbedead raises to $9
terenzino calls $8
arts65 raises to $21
catbedead has 15 seconds left to act
catbedead has requested TIME
catbedead calls $12
terenzino calls $12
*** FLOP *** [Js 8d Qd]
catbedead bets $19, and is all in
terenzino calls $19
arts65 calls $19
*** TURN *** [Js 8d Qd] [8s]
terenzino checks
arts65 bets $14
terenzino calls $13.40, and is all in
arts65 shows [Qs Ks]
catbedead shows [Ad Kd]
terenzino shows [Tc Ac]
Uncalled bet of $0.60 returned to arts65
*** RIVER *** [Js 8d Qd 8s] [Th]
arts65 shows two pair, Queens and Eights
terenzino shows two pair, Tens and Eights
arts65 wins the side pot ($26.80) with two pair, Queens and Eights
catbedead shows a straight, Ace high
catbedead wins the main pot ($117.50) with a straight, Ace high
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $147.30 Main pot $120.50. Side pot $26.80. | Rake $3
Board: [Js 8d Qd 8s Th]
Seat 1: roncha8 (button) didn't bet (folded)
Seat 2: XantharAce (small blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 3: catbedead (big blind) showed [Ad Kd] and won ($117.50) with a straight, Ace high
Seat 4: Weity99 is sitting out
Seat 5: Flying Diamond is sitting out
Seat 6: terenzino showed [Tc Ac] and lost with two pair, Tens and Eights
Seat 7: StoneBuddha21 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 8: 17enigma17 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 9: arts65 showed [Qs Ks] and won ($26.80) with two pair, Queens and Eights