4bet range stat is wrong

[Timooo]

Hi, your calculation of the 4bet range stat is wrong. Plz fix it, we really need this. And you could make 4bet stats for different positions. Thx!

[morny]

What exactly is wrong with the calculation so i can look into this problem?

[Timooo]

As I see you calculate: PFR% / 4bet%

I am pretty sure you should calculate: UnopenedPFR * 4bet%

example: My PFR on the BU is 30, my PFR1in on th BU is 55 and my 4bet is 8.

As much as I know you should calculate the 4betRange stat this way: 55 * 0.08 = 4.4%

... what means we 4bet 4.4% of our 100% starting hands range.

[morny]

Im not sure if i understand correctly, 4bet range is basically indicating the range someone is 4betting with, i don't see the value of only using unopened PFR unless your specifically taking situations where the villain PFR'd in an unopened pot. It would give a better indication in a unopened pot but not for others. I guess you could have 2 stats, one for unopened and one standard.

Either way the stat is flawed currently until we start tracking 4bet by position, when we add that well update the stat to positional 4bet range which is more useful as it currently uses overall 4bet

[Timooo]

1. You havent refered to the calculation itself. Even if u take PFR as basis you shouldnt calculate the 4bet range by PFR% / 4bet% what you do right? My friends and I are sure the right way would be PFR * 4bet% if you want to take PFR as basis. Look at my example in my last post and forget the Raise1in stat there...

2. Which situations do you mean except the situation where player A openraises, player B 3bets and player C 4bets? I agree thats a problem but its the same problem when we would take PFR as basis for this calculation instead. The PFR has nothing to do with the 100% starting hands range. The 4betRange stat should reflect the percantage of the 100% starting hands like for example when the 4betRange stat is 0.9% we can assume that he only 4bets AA and KK right? For the 100% range of all starting hands the Raise1in stat is a much better indicator becus the PFR stat is much smaller becus soo many times we couldnt/didnt raise becus of the action before which influences the PFR stat but doesnt influence the Raise1in stat regarding to the 100% of all possible starting hands. Example: we want to openraise 2 of 10 possible hands on the BU which is 20% of our all-starting hands range but when it would have been raised before us we would only call with these hands. Our Raise1in stat will be 20% what is exactly the same percentage when u relate the 2 hands to all starting hands. But the PFR stat would be much less, lets say 10%. No matter how you calculate now, it influences the result a lot and doesnt reflect the 4bet range of all starting hands what I think it is the goal.

[morny]

Hi,

From our stats FAQ

Four Bet Range = Total PFR multiplied by Total 4bet %.. The thing to keep in mind is that most 4bet situations will involve later positions and PFR and 4bet % will be higher from late position than the overall PFR and 4bet would be.

FAQ - Hold'em Manager Poker Tracking Software :: Stat Definitions

Thats how we calculate it, unless there is an error in the calculation, if so please let me know and ill look into it

[Timooo]

Nobody else does agree that the 1inRaise stat is a much better basis than the PFR stat?

[morny]

Possibly, and certainly if hes raise was a 1st in raise, if he original raised a limper then hes opening range is probably going to be a tighter range than he 1st in Opening range and so in that case it wouldnt be accurate. With that in mind i guess having 2 stats, one based on first raise and the other for non first 1raise hands. You can suggest something like this here if you want to see what people think Suggestions Forums - Holdem Manager Forums