Filter 3

[MASTERHOLMES]

My question: When you made the video did you come to your conclusion my running these filter on players using datamined hands?

If so, your conclusion is biased towards hands that were won. Because these hands will not be mucked therefor these whole cards are known and are included in filter 3. The losing hands will be mucked and are therfore unkown wholcards and are excluded in filter 3.

I am afraid that what you are saying is a leak might nog be a leak at all.

"Leak Buster is the process of tens of millions of hands being analyzed and median ranges constructed for peak win rates. These Hand Histories were not submitted, they were farmed directly from the poker sites. A model was constructed from that of how these ranges relate and effect each other. Next a scoring algorithm was built from this model which ranks the data and how far it is from that peak mean, and a score from 1-10 is given for each statistical category based on the severity of the leak. "

I think that means they didn't datamine from their hold them manager database like you are worried about. .
so when looking at hands they filtered for this, they came up with good statistic leak in between tag and lag for balance.

[Wietse]

thx for the advice. I will start playing around a bit with the filter.

Regarding bet calling en check calling filter 19 filters on this. It only doesnt filter on hand value.

But I was kinda hoping you could answer my question wether the results used for making the video are biased or not.

It actually doesn't really matter to me if the video is right or wrong, but what I would like to know if I REALLY should be showing a profit running this filter.

[Wietse]

ohh i didn't see your 2nd post at first.

So I could be right about this. That the advise given in the video is based on wrong information.

[Leak Buster Support]

When I run this filter, there will be a lot of airhands included. Holdem manager knows all of my holecards so all of them will be included. The data for filters though is used from sites with known hole cards though if that helps.

When I run this filter on another player in my database it will include a lot of hands where I was not in the hand. Because of this the wholecards of this player will often be unkown. This is because when a player loses his hand and he mucks his hand the holecards are often not being shown in a datamined hand history. This will be almost all of his airhands.
In the example in my previous post player x had 26% unkown holecards. That is a lot. All if these hands are uncounted for in filter 3.



My question: When you made the video did you come to your conclusion my running these filter on players using datamined hands?

If so, your conclusion is biased towards hands that were won. Because these hands will not be mucked therefor these whole cards are known and are included in filter 3. The losing hands will be mucked and are therfore unkown wholcards and are excluded in filter 3.

I am afraid that what you are saying is a leak might nog be a leak at all.

Knowing a players hole cards doesn't influence whether they went to showdown or not. Some sites won't show cards, but most will if it's gone to showdown.

If you're losing money with that filter, it's a leak. There are likely several decisions on many streets you'll want to evaluate starting all the way from pre-flop. For example, if you are too loose, and playing too many hands that will make a lot of second best hands, you'll make TPGK, and if you take too many of those to showdown, you will lose most of the time.

I would suggest posting up some of the biggest losing hands you have with that filter and start analyzing (and having others) give you feedback about those hands. There usually will be a common theme that will arise.

[Leak Buster Support]

Not sure why it's not letting me edit, but I wanted to make clear that filter information is primarily used on sites with known hole cards. We also consult with winning players about information from the filters, as well as how to construct the filters for finding specific leaks.

I'd also add that from my personal play over a large sample size (and this is mainly mid-stakes), I have winning numbers with that filter.

[MASTERHOLMES]

ok going back to filter 3.
I think besides looking at the hands it helps to look at the stats overall at least if not in position.
just briefly looking my own stats here,,

my pfr is 78, but my flop and turn bet is only 19 percent so that means that i am too passive probaly allowing the suck out on the turn and the river.
also my positional awareness is only 1 with this filter meaning that I don't use position.
I do well in all preflop action except where i am the opener which indicates probaly that i am too lag when not opened before me ?
note that my cbet being so low ,, that i am giving away money opening up the hand preflop and not following through with a cbet.

furthermore looking at my main losses the worse was opening up with medium pairs,and following through to the river, in detailed hand grouping.

so the filter here can really get detailed if you look at your own stats as to some weakness in patterns.
note I have some videos on data analyzing at stox site, so that helps me look deeper, i bet especially if i compare to leakbuster stats to optimize filter 3 to a winning position.

[Wietse]

Not sure why it's not letting me edit, but I wanted to make clear that filter information is primarily used on sites with known hole cards. We also consult with winning players about information from the filters, as well as how to construct the filters for finding specific leaks.

I'd also add that from my personal play over a large sample size (and this is mainly mid-stakes), I have winning numbers with that filter.

Thx that puts my mind at ease.

ok going back to filter 3.
I think besides looking at the hands it helps to look at the stats overall at least if not in position.
just briefly looking my own stats here,,

my pfr is 78, but my flop and turn bet is only 19 percent so that means that i am too passive probaly allowing the suck out on the turn and the river.
also my positional awareness is only 1 with this filter meaning that I don't use position.
I do well in all preflop action except where i am the opener which indicates probaly that i am too lag when not opened before me ?
note that my cbet being so low ,, that i am giving away money opening up the hand preflop and not following through with a cbet.

furthermore looking at my main losses the worse was opening up with medium pairs,and following through to the river, in detailed hand grouping.

so the filter here can really get detailed if you look at your own stats as to some weakness in patterns.
note I have some videos on data analyzing at stox site, so that helps me look deeper, i bet especially if i compare to leakbuster stats to optimize filter 3 to a winning position.

I have lost 20k on this filter in the past 15 months.(glump) Considering I am breaking even I must do i whole lot of good things on other spots

I am going to get into my details right away.
What video's @ stox are you refering too?

Would you be interested in joining my studygroup? You would be the first.

[MASTERHOLMES]

stoxpoker is merging fully with cardrunners on may first.

but if you are already a member of stoxpoker ,, watch split suit drill down preflop videos 1 and 2.
then using the stats recomendations for six max no limit on leakbuster (the range ) you realize if you are below or above it.

then you dont try to pigien hole yourself into the stat,, i know I tried that back when it tried poker tracker 3 before i got hold them manager.

instead for example one of my main leaks on step 2 is cbet, so i went to position tab in step 3, and look in advanced last night and clicked on each red area (pretty cool imo) and got the advice.
so pretty my major leak is raising preflop and not following through with a cbet. (then i read the cbet module and probaly will rewatch the cbet video).

but I am holding back from playing fully no limit as i am waiting for omaha leakbuster.

[Wietse]

thanks

I am gonna watch those vids.

I didn't really get into step 3 yet. The advanced stuff really do look cool though

[Leif]

I am loosing a ton here too.

I also counts the times when you get AI on the flop with a strong draw and get called, and have less than TPGK on turn (very often).

Part of why you are raise a flop raiser with these hands are your fold equity, and when that is high, the only hands that get in this filter is when you are called, here opp often has
1) overpair = often smallish favorite
2) set = always big favorite.


So by playing these hands right vs the right type of players (FE wise), og will get a pretty big negative result for those hands, right ?

Thereby scewing the overall meaning by looking at the stat.

I think it should sort out "when allin on flop".

I am loosing big in this filter (winning player), and the many of the loosing hands are fully correct played strong draw vs players where i have high FE, and they happen to have a set, and off course call.