Not-so-tech savvy, partially color-blind, newb HUD user questions (MTT, MTS&G)

[a.k.a.Also]

This could be the start of some really meaningful discussion. Just give us a place to thrash some ideas out, and count me in to devote more time to driving this forward.

UserVoice as it stands - far too difficult & time consuming to navigate - a complete mess
:

I suppose it is an easier way to assess the level of support for an idea, and I concede that Roy has gone in and updated progress, but still way too cluttered IMO.


I sense a trend is developing to prevent mass historical datamining though, and if this continues perhaps the wheel will turn back towards manipulation and display of short term villain/table info, which obviously is what we MTT'ers face anyway.

[B-Money]

Hi,

The problem with making a forum for ideas is everyone expects their idea to be the best and they get frustrated when it doesn't get implemented. Then we take a ton of unnecessary heat about how we don't listen to people. IE, User Voice is an easy way for us to manage this without having to answer questions every day about feature requests.

The last two months have been crazy with all the new changes inside of Holdem Manager. I'm personally pushing to get some loose ends tidied up before we start more major updates. For tourney guys this includes: Export to CSV, choose where you get to export this CSV file. Choose where you get to export hand histories, ability to remember sort order for tournament hands. Some people like to see the first hand first, others like to see the last hand first. Recently we've fixed a column sorting issue, now we need it to remember the sort order on a key column or two. Hopefully all of them, but we really only get requests about remembering it for tourney hands.

As for the EV/Luck graph, I swear when I was playing 90 & 180 person SNG's regularly it calculated EV correctly. I could be wrong though. Let me know what the specific problem is and I'll investigate further. Maybe Roy already addressed it in a thread. Point me to that. :-) We get lots of EV questions/complaints and we can't make everyone happy with how we calculate EV because there's too many different ways to do it. Another case where everyone thinks their way is best. EV video will be made shortly so everyone understand it.

I'm not sure how to open this up so everyone can be heard without it turning ulgy. Maybe I'll make a blog post about the tournament side of HM welcoming comments for other suggestions to improve it. That's probably what I'll do.

I've worked 12-14 hour days 7 days a week for the last 6 weeks and tomorrow is my first day off. Going skiing - But I'll make a blog post in the next week or two about Tournament features and hopefully we can move the discussion to the comment section for the blog I write up about it.

Sound good?
-B

[_Loki_]

Enjoy your skiing -B

I don't think it will turn ugly - this forum isn't populated by boy/men like many other forums. You use your customers to test ideas that you later charge for so trust them to contribute in a positive way to the direction of the HM product

It is very frustrating not knowing what's happening in the future with HM so the Blog might be good, but before you get fancy with RSS feeds etc why not start emailing us now & then?

Why are your customers left knowing nothing about your new apps etc ?
I have never had an email from RVG telling me about updates or products - this must have cost RVG buckets of money in lost revenue from customers who do not visit here

Make UserVoice a practical tool or do it a different way...
There are suggestions in UserVoice that were implemented months ago - why are they still there ?
Why do we have to go through pages & pages of stuff to get an overview? People can't be bothered to do all that

I could go on...

[The Minder]

yeah, enjoy your skiing.

Taking tourney requirements out of the HM forum and the uservoice will relegate tourney players to the outhouse... a position may of us are already familiar with. Btw, the things you mentioned about fixing for tournies... doomed to failure as the underlying data is diluted. Let me know if you want to know why.

Regarding EV... it only applies to STT... refer http://forums.holdemmanager.com/show...048#post121048 So lumping this in with all the other tourney data is 'sketchy'. Besides, EV calcs in tournies before getting ITM is pointless imo. But I'll leave that discussion for another time.

I agree that for EV (and prolly many other things) we all have an opinion about the right and wrong of it. What gets my back up is that the EV line is on by default. If there is doubt over something is should be off by default and allowed to be turned on by those who need it. Notwithstanding, the EV parameter would be irrelevant if we could get some decent reports... meh, there I go again.

Whatever hope tourney players had of getting heard has been crushed by the new Rush poker on FTP. All the cash games guys are selling their first born to get HM up and running on this. I feel it's a non issue as people are going to get sick and tired of playing nothing but:

check holecards, fold... check holecards, fold... check holecards, fold... check holecards, fold... check holecards, fold... check holecards, fold... check holecards, fold... check holecards, fold... check holecards, AA, shove... check holecards, fold... check holecards, fold... check holecards, fold... check holecards, fold... check holecards, fold... why is my BR going down?... check holecards, fold... check holecards, fold... check holecards, fold... check holecards, fold... check holecards, fold... check holecards, fold... check holecards, fold...

[a.k.a.Also]

For my 50th post I shall bump this most hijacked of threads and ask Mr B-Money..... did we put you off the "How could we develop HEM into a kicka$$ MTT/SNG package" blog..... or you just distracted by all the rather good skiing at the Olympics?

[B-Money]

Hi,

Still crazy busy but I haven't forgot the tourney players. Also got some Omaha peeps that feel left out too. Rush has been madness along with multi-currency. Once those two are off the table that will free up resources to do some other things. Friday is a big build for multi-currency and hopefully bugs will be minimal once that is released so we can focus on other things.

Blog, oh yes. I'm trying to put them out ever 2 weeks. Looks like that 2 week mark is upon us so I should get something together. This will be the tourney blog for sure. Might be a little light on tourney content, but it will be written in a way that opens the discussion up. Next week I'll be out of the office all week so I'll try to get this blog done before I head out.

GL,
-B

[_Loki_]

Well said sir akaA

[a.k.a.Also]

Pfff Omaha peeps - there's a growing (ok slowly growing) band of us PLO8 SNG/tourney peeps so far out in the cold we hire ourselves out to supermarkets when their freezers break down!

Kudos to DrunkAnimal tho who is doing good stuff in the reports section - throw that man an e-mail eh?

[The Minder]

@ B- The blog idea is, I fear, doomed. People come to this forum seeking advice/support about HM and hiding tourney discussion in another media will probably achieve little except confirm just how little interest Roy has in the matter. God forbid that anything negative be said about HM while the cash game players are around.

If Roy really does want to supports tourney players, and kick PT3 out of the park in the process, then do so where everyone can see what's going on and where everyone can provide input to the process. After the Rush/Currency debacles, RVG would do well to try and win back some kudos.

[a.k.a.Also]

@ B- The blog idea is, I fear, doomed. People come to this forum seeking advice/support about HM and hiding tourney discussion in another media will probably achieve little except confirm just how little interest Roy has in the matter. God forbid that anything negative be said about HM while the cash game players are around.

If Roy really does want to supports tourney players, and kick PT3 out of the park in the process, then do so where everyone can see what's going on and where everyone can provide input to the process. After the Rush/Currency debacles, RVG would do well to try and win back some kudos.

I hear what you're saying minder, but I for one wouldn't begrudge a little time spent in an off the page discussion about what could be done to improve, what has to be said, is a fairly modest investment in HEM as it stands.
I think we're all agreed that uservoice is no use for constructive discussion, so why not take the opportunity, at least to agree some bullet points and bring it back here, or let B-M take it to Roy?

After all, we invested in the software, knowing its limitations, and there's no reason to knock it as it's still a great product. We just know that there's so much more potential, in our corner of the poker world, waiting to be tapped.