New Coke/Coke Classic (the drink)

[morny]

Hi,

Can you email hm2support@holdemmanager.com and ask for a teamviewer session with Morny, there is no way it should be unusable on a high spec machine like that. We have made a bunch of performance improvements lately but this is an ongoing process, we still have some really big performance improvements planned but they are more focused on the actual app rather than performance issues while playing which are more related to the HUD.

Im happy to show you me 15 tabling on my crap laptop with 2gb of ram and a 1.6gh processor with HM2 without any lag issues and thats on ipoker which does have its own CPU usage issues, the only problems i have is keeping up with the action. There may be still more performance issues we missed specific to certain PC configurations, it may be several things so i would be happy to work with you in narrowing this down whenever you have the time and please refer to this thread. This offer is open to anyone with performance issues.

Playing live without performance issues is probably the most important function of a tracker so this will get top priority if we can narrow it down, it sounds like more than just you have this issue but the forums/emails would be crammed with threads on this if it was widespread so we need the help of the people still experiencing these issues so we can reproduce and fix it.

FWIW its not unsual to see a couple of performance issues daily with HM1 giving the size of the user base, because we had years to track down any performance bugs 99% of those are due to specific things like badly setup import loops, 3rd party programs, PC issues etc, your issue may be a combination of both HM2 and your PC configuration but hard to speculate at this stage, what i can tell you is as soon as we track this down you can be sure it will be fixed asap i.e days or weeks depending on the complexity of the fix and certainly not months.

[hundenapf@gmail.com]

For 2 reasons not. Firstly I do not have HM2 installed for you to work with now because I went back to HM1 completely after I had lots of additional trouble with Notecaddy recently (http://forums.holdemmanager.com/note...ing-hm2-7.html). Thanks to HM2 my SSD drive was completely full after it repeatedly processed hands for days. When I was made aware that I could run Notecaddy in standalone with HM1 I deleted HM2 and its database to be able to use my precious SSD space again.

I gave this software 3 very extensive tries over the last 2 months and did things for hours if not days you guys requested from me on these forums and on 2p2 (turn UAC off, add exceptions in firewall, running as admin, reinstall .net, reinstall drivers, reinstall postgres in different versions, database tweaking, turning logs off, changing different settings, installing about a dozen of HM2 internal versions, etc). I have no plan on looking at HM2 again until this Windows type Service Pack comes out Patvs mentioned earlier.

Secondly I do not care at all about your company's way of turning your paying customers into unpaid beta testers to help you iron out major bugs and flaws. This software is expensive enough as it is so that you can not expect me to work with you on it to make it run in the first place after having shilled out about 200 Dollars or more. To me this practice of constantly asking end customers for logs and Teamviewer sessions just feels intrusive and abusive.

I will reiterate and emphasize this fact whenever I get the chance to because people seem to get all too used to the idea to first paying a company and then working for them without pay on the product they bought. This is just an insult to milk your customers twice this way. If you want to continue down that road you should make the entire HM2 thing open source and then many people will be happy to work with you on all the aspects and parts of it. It should of course be completely free then. You could probably charge for the additional apps as "plugins". But the way you involve your "customers" in the development and bug fixing process now there is no way they should have to pay anything for the HM2 core, much rather the other way around.

Make it either free and open source or get it to work yourself completely with all features in place and bugs gone before taking money for it. It just feels like this so much already, like something on Sourceforge with all the trouble tickets and "internal builds" and "milestones" with the only exception that you charge a lot of money for it.

[30slou]

I agree with hundenapf@gmail.com. I was however saved from becoming an unpaid beta tester by the Table Scanner debacle for HM2 and clearly HM2 was made for sale way too early.

A year seems way for short for continuing support for HM1 and revoking HM1 licenses to people who paid for them because they got a discount on an inferior product is unacceptable. This appears to be a theme in how customers are treated.

I see the ad for a Mac developer. You should really allocate more resources to supporting HM1 for more than a year.

[30slou]

Is there we can just pay you then money we "saved" on the HM2 upgrade to continue using HM1 forever?

[30slou]

Morny,

Naive question for you. You sat the play time perf issues are HUD related for HM2. Now HM1 HUD works just fine.
Cant you just port the HM1 HUD so it can read the HM2 database and offer it as an APP?

I am happy to pay a buy in or so for this plus if this Band Aid works some people who are on the fence may using HM2 with a fast hud.

Probably not so simple though.

[hundenapf@gmail.com]

Interesting that you say that, I would accept that option as well because just today I have decided to also just use HM1 as long is it supported but not to give HM2 a try again in the future. After reading that HEM employees themselves currently consider HM1 an inferior product even themselves and considering that together with their corporate habit of exploiting paying customers as beta testers I have just completely lost faith in this company. To me they have gambled away their credibility with this release and after HM1 is stopped being supported I will try one of these very promising new purely web based Cloud solutions or maybe even PT4.

I contacted the sales team just now asking for some kind of compensation/refund for HM2 as it is clearly not in any working condition for me. What they have effectively done is sell me hot air and asking me to help them basically finish their product and make it work myself after I gave them my money. I have gone through this once before in December and was really hoping the product was fixed now after having been contacted about a performance improving update, which actually did not fix performance adequately but also introduced severe new bugs, specifically with Notecaddy effectively wrecking my SSD Postgres harddrive. I am not willing to invest any more time and money into this in the future just to discover I have been misled again. The audacity behind this corporate conduct is incredible.

[30slou]

hundenapf@gmail.com, I can understand your frustration. And while it very tempting to try other things, lets face it,
we are using HM1 because it is the best product.

If you have completely lost faith that HM2 will be just as good in 6 months, you are justified but I have not. Like you
I have no interest in becoming an unpaid tester - but none of us have to be - we have HM1. The company is probably deeply invested in ensuring HM2 is a success despite a disastrous start.

The main thing is not to have our HM1 licenses revoked and to keep the pressure up to maintain HM1.

That said, a port of the HM1 HUD would still be great as we could access HM2 stats and keep the good performance.

[sreticentv]

Notecaddy effectively wrecking my SSD Postgres harddrive.

holy crap I rue the day you ever heard of NoteCaddy. I'm sorry there was a problem and extra disk space got used but do you need to post this on every forum?

Did you ever delete the postgres log files?

Please PM me the email address you used to buy NoteCaddy and I will personally make sure you get a refund for it. I try my best for everything to be perfect but sometimes I am imperfect and like I said I am truly sorry. But having somebody trash the **** out of me all over the place when it happens is too damaging for it to be worth it.

[hundenapf@gmail.com]

Sreti I am not having a problem with you or Notecaddy and this problem was just one of very many problems I had with the HM2 package since my initial purchase 2 months ago. Actually Notecaddy was the main reason I tried so hard to make it work for me again and again and I keep emphasizing to others (for example on the German Poker community forums where I report about my HM2 experiences – you are free to interpret me being a German citizen as fulfilling the cliche of a pedantic, humorless perfectionist) that Notecaddy is about the single best thing about HM2 in the first place. As I told you in the other thread the logs were no issue, there were about 200mb of logs and I disabled and deleted them. The problem was somewhere in the HM2 database which filled the SSD up after days of Notecaddy running through hands.

What I do have a serious problem with however is the general corporate conduct I have experienced first hand since this HM2 purchase. This is what I keep pounding on in the various community forums and I will continue doing so on other forums, blogs and Podcasts because this issue of misguided efficiency capitalism at the cost of end consumers is dear to my heart and all I can do about it is try to heighten awareness of this problem with the goal of trying to nudge software companies to either make their product open source if they want collaboration (Linux style) or to make it work well before they take money for it (Apple Mac style). But selling something that does not work well (Microsoft style, thanks Patvs for the Vista analogy) is plain bad. I try to sensitize people to the fact that they – as paying customers – are being abused as beta testers for a prematurely released software instead of being delivered a working product. It entails the cutting of work places and makes for bad product releases. It allows for new flaws creeping in with "updates" such as with the Notecaddy incident. And then again end users are asked to put time and effort in to work them out. If the product only had a couple of flaws and some features were missing nobody would care, but just look at this list of issues, bugs, trouble tickets even now after my second purchase, months later and it is in no way better working.

Ever heard the phrase "the customer is king"? As an end customer I do not want to deal with milestones, internal versions, trouble tickets and such. Contrary to my nature I tried to show goodwill for a couple of weeks now and did the whole routine with the internal versions, bug reporting and patience. It didn't work for me, the product still sucks (for me) so I am back to my maxime that when I buy something I expect it to work and if it doesn't it means trouble for the vendor or the manufacturer which easily enough in the case of HM2 is the same company.

[Patvs]

Make it either free and open source

@hundenapf@gmail.com:
There are varies payment structures:
-1. gillette system (give the razor away for nearly free, ask rediculously high prices for the razor blades, printers and toner/cartridges use this system)
-2. ask a monthly/yearly subscription fee (i.e. Norton Antivirus, PokerOffice experimented with this system)
-3. the most common system: you pay once. You can use it 'forever', but at some point the company will release a new/improved version for which you'll have to pay again: Adobe Photoshop, Microsoft Windows, HoldemManager etc.

I don't want to be an unpaid beta-tester / milking customers twice

You were already an unpaid beta-tester for HM1. Every HoldemManager user is: they report a bug, we fix it.
Of course we can find and fix some bugs ourselves, but we don't have 10.000 programmers/alpha-testers (like Microsoft does) and we can't play on every pokerskin and every type of game, so unfortunately we rely on players to report bugs.

You don't have to upgrade to HM2. We're not forcing you.... (yet). Just continue to use HM1. It will be supported for another year.
Video: why you should upgrade: http://www.holdemmanager.com/Downloa...oduction-3.wmv

Is there we can just pay you then money we "saved" on the HM2 upgrade to continue using HM1 forever?

This is an interesting question. Since we don't make it clear that using the 'discount' will result in an expiring HM1 license. Whereas if you buy HM2 for the full price, your HM1 license won't expire. (but HM1 will stop getting updates in about a year, so it it basically results to the same thing)