No stat changes in 12.06

[Patvs]

I'm saying up until your recent post, we thought all the new stat bugs were already fixed.
(so either no player is actually using these stats, or you're the only player smart enough to realize they're being calculated wrong)

You started the debate with your october 4 thread: http://forums.holdemmanager.com/mana...ork-right.html

If you look at post #7 I added "#2690".
I just looked up the bug ticket #2690 which talks about two things:

-1
Turn cb 3bet pot HUD stat - different in HUD compared to reports.
River cb 3bet pot HUD stat - different in HUD compared to reports.
Fold to river cb 3bet pot HUD stat - different in HUD compared to reports.

-2
Also these HUD Stats
Flop 3bet Pot CB
Fold to flop CB 3Bet Pot
Call flop CB 3Bet Pot
Raise flop CB 3Bet Pot
are including 4bet pots.


At the end of the bug ticket one HM programmer states the issue is fixed (and requires a reimport of the hands), and another programmer confirms it's fixed. And the ticked is closed.


A new ticket will be written up based on your last email with your handhistories.

[alllala]

I'm saying up until your recent post, we thought all the new stat bugs were already fixed.
(so either no player is actually using these stats, or you're the only player smart enough to realize they're being calculated wrong)

You started the debate with your october 4 thread: http://forums.holdemmanager.com/mana...ork-right.html


..

I think the most users of HM1 trust your software and woulnd´t believe that so many stats are wrong. I myself have been one of them for a long time. But since I´m creating and working with custom Reports, I saw many little mistakes made in your Database. This is were my trust started to erode in the HM team.
And then sometime later i got suspicious that everybody seems to have a Contibet Value of 100% on the River in a 3Bet Pot. So I invested some time to the matter, to find out the fault. So I thought, well if that stat might be wrong. What else is? So, to my disbelieve I find more and more wrong stats:

Wrong old stats

Bet vs missed CB.total OOP
Bet vs missed CB.turn OOP
Bet vs missed CB.river OOP

Bet vs missed CB.total in pos
Bet vs missed CB.flop in pos
Bet vs missed CB.turn in pos
Bet vs missed CB.river in pos

Fold_vs_3b.EP.blind (all these vs. 3b Stats were feasible with the Playeraction details Window)
Fold_vs_3b.EP.ip
Raise_vs_3b.EP.blind
Raise_vs_3b.EP.ip
Call_vs_3b.EP.blind
Call_vs_3b.EP.ip

Fold_vs_3b.MP.blind
Fold_vs_3b.MP.ip
Raise_vs_3b.MP.blind
Raise_vs_3b.MP.ip
Call_vs_3b.MP.blind
Call_vs_3b.MP.ip

Fold_vs_3b.CO.blind
Fold_vs_3b.CO.ip
Raise_vs_3b.CO.blind
Raise_vs_3b.CO.ip
Call_vs_3b.CO.blind
Call_vs_3b.CO.ip

Continuation_bet.flop_three-bet_pot (this is not a new stats from this year)


New Stats that are wrong.

Continuation_bet.turn_three-bet_pot (should be fixed with 12.06 - but not)
Continuation_bet.river_three-bet_pot (should be fixed with 12.06 - but not)
Fold_CB_to_raise.flop_three-bet_pot

Fold_to_CB.river_three-bet_pot (seems fixed)
Raise_CB.river_three-bet_pot (seems fixed)




What really disappointed me was the fact that I trusted you guys that, if informed you fix the Problem with a faulty stat. But this thread is proof that even your fixes are bullshit. It seems you never tested your own improvement and tormented every User of HM1 with a useless reimport.


And now it seems. If some gives you an error description, you don´t even understand what the matter is.

-2
Also these HUD Stats
Flop 3bet Pot CB
Fold to flop CB 3Bet Pot
Call flop CB 3Bet Pot
Raise flop CB 3Bet Pot
are including 4bet pots.


..

Only Flop 3bet Pot CB and Raise flop CB 3Bet Pot are including 4bet Pots (as to mine knowledge), but only when the Contibeter is raised on the Flop. When there is no Raise neither of these are including 4bet Pots.

Edit: I made a mistake: Not Raise flop CB 3Bet Pot is including 4bet Range, it´s Fold_CB_to_raise.flop_three-bet_pot

[Patvs]

I've forwarded all the info directly to Roy Goncalves to look into this.

[alllala]

Edit: I made a mistake: Not Raise flop CB 3Bet Pot is including 4bet Range, it´s Fold_CB_to_raise.flop_three-bet_pot

[Daniel]

also errors in:

http://forums.holdemmanager.com/hud-...pers-stat.html

[Patvs]

Follow up:

(from internal email)

We have found the core part of the issue and it is in 4+bets

1) all of our HM1 3bet pot stats include 3bet or higher pots while
that user finding the problems was filtering just for 3bet pots.
4+bet pot stats would be added causing the difference he is seeing
2) we previously had a bug where 4+ bets would cause the position of
the 3bet to change to the position of the 4bet. This bug was recently
fixed but requires a reimport - this would affect all positional 3+bet
stats

HM1: we have to ensure that 3bet pots include 4bet and higher

We're still going through all these stats to make sure everything is 100% ok given the
info but this will be fixed as soon as possible.

[alllala]

We have found the core part of the issue and it is in 4+bets

1) all of our HM1 3bet pot stats include 3bet or higher pots while
that user finding the problems was filtering just for 3bet pots.
4+bet pot stats would be added causing the difference he is seeing

This isn´t True. 4+bet pot stats were only added to Flop CB 3B pot and Flop CB vs Raise 3B pot, when the Contibeter was Raised. If the Contibeter just got called 4+bet pots weren´t added at all to the 3bet pot stats. There is no such thing for Turn or River, but there is another error in the stats calculation for these streets. If the contibeter gets Raised on Turn or River in a 3bet pot, then the formula counts it as if there were 2 Contibets (which can lead to values bigger than 100%).

Furthermore you suggest that we were filtering wrong, and hence got difference in stats between Hud and Report. But i checked everytime the that the number of hands in the Hud and the number of hands in the Report were the same for the calculated stats, so there was no error in filtering (because it happend to me once)

HM1: we have to ensure that 3bet pots include 4bet and higher

What do you mean with that? You want to add 4+bet situations to the 3bet pot stats, or is it just a swindle because you can´t exclude all 4+bets pots from being added to these stats.
The 3bet pot stats should only include 3bet pot situations. Otherwise the stat looses it´s meaning.

We're still going through all these stats to make sure everything is 100% ok given the
info but this will be fixed as soon as possible.

With which priority are you checking your old work? This is just a cloudy statement that can mean anything. Is there really going someone through these stats? Or is it deep down a list of things, that have to be done in the far future?

And what about the vs missed Contibet issue? It´s totally fucked up, as there are counted all sorts of situations that shouldn´t be added. (And this stat is so fucking important)

Like:

Limped pots
Reraises or Calles of the contibeter to a Raise
Delayed contibets

Edit:
You are right. All the old 3bet pot stats include 3+bet pot situations. Only the new Turn and River CB 3bet pot only includes 3bet pot situations.

But now you want to change all the stats in 3+bet pot stats, so you don´t have to change them into 3bet pot stats?
But i want 3bet pot stats and not 3+bet pot stats.

[Patvs]

I've forwarded your post to Roy/Fred via email.

[StonedShisha]

first of all,
big thanks to user alllala who has taken the time to examine and analyse what we other grinders dont have time to analyse, and that we (unfortuanally) blindly trust from the holdemmanager develop team. Im gonna raise my hand and say that these faulty stats has with high probability cost me a lot of money as well.

Second I would like to say to Patvs answer about Holdemmanager2 being somewhat of a rescue. That the issues from HM1 will not excist in HM2 because the way the program is built (or whatever). Well let me tell you something about HM2. I have just used the end product for over a month now (I did also _try_ to use the alpha and the beta)- and let me tell you: Holdemmanager2 is an complete FAIL. It is a product sold that is NOT end-user ready yet. And judging by the timeframe we have seen for holdemmanager1 to become "ready" Im not even sure if HM2 will ever be a good program to use.
I mean I was really looking forward to just uninstall HM2 so I can get back to my HM1. And then you read this thread and realise that there is some real crucial problems with HM1 still... STILL... After this long time. And why isnt it fixed immediatly? Well because of HM2 FAIL project. So what the fck are we supposed to do..? We cannot use holdemmanager2 (nono forget it.. I aint trying that garbage ever again.. I'd rather to go some lowbuget tracker from some other company then trying HM2 within at leats 6 months). And now every problem with HM1 is on very low priority because of HM2...

Seriously just trash the entire HM2 fail project and focus on making HM1 a much better product instead... This is getting so messy that I dont think Im alone when Im hoping for PokerTracker4 to come rescue us from this CANCER software (reffering to a fail HM2 and a incomplete un-prioriated HM1)

[Patvs]

Read: http://forums.holdemmanager.com/feat...tml#post773481

In addition Roy writes:

This will be the plan

for HM1 we'll make 3bet pots = only 3bet pots instead of 3+bet pots

for HM2 we'll break it down into Limped, Single Raised, 3bet, 4bet and
5+bet pots - this will not require a reimport