4bet and 4bet range difference

[robiott]

Hi Guys,

Please explain to me how interpret correctly:
* 4 bet range
* 4 bet

What's the difference between 4 bet range and 4 bet?

My 3 bet = 3,04
4 bet = 8,66
4 bet range = 0,9

really good winning player (played over 1 million hands) who stats I'm comparing with
His 3 bet = 2,31
4 bet = 5,35

What's likely reason that his 4 bet is considerably lower?

I noticed that good constantly winning players have considerably lower 4 bet than mine. Any idea what reasons
might be behind this?

Surprisingly to me his 4bet range is similar.

I'm playing micro stakes (0,02/0,05). Full ring, NL Holdem.

thank you in advance,
robiott

[Patvs]

Four bet is: Player must open the betting action then be the one to 4-bet.
Four bet range is: Total PFR multiplied by Total 4bet %

The difference in 4bet % can happen if he plays a lot more hands in position.
For example if he always calls a 3bet in position with JJ/QQ/AK, whereas you are much more inclined to 4bet those hands.

[davdas]

Patvs,

So how is pfr used for 3 bet calculation?

[Patvs]

It's not.
3bet = player A raises, player B 3bets
Player B's PFR is never taken into account.


Only with 4 bet range it is. Because when you 4bet you also have to be the initial raiser.
(otherwise it's called an open 4bet)

[davdas]

So is 3bet % based on 100 hundred percent of hands? or a percentage of players vpip?

e.g based on a 25% vpip with a 10% 3 bet,

is this 10% of all hands or 10% of vpip? more accurately a 2.5% 3bet?

[netsrak]

Its based on its own sample size which is the amount of hands where a 3bet is possible. Its the number in () behind the stat in the popup.

[davdas]

So if someones 3 bet is .... 10% (50) this is really only 5%?

[Patvs]

3bet is based on hands where 3bet is possible.

Similarly Fold to 3bet, Fold to 4bet, and 4bet are NOT based on ALL hands:
Fold to 3bet: based only on hands where someone 3betted
Fold to 4bet: based only on hands where someone 4betted
4bet: based on hands where the player raised and was 3betted--> how often will he then 4bet
4bet range: see 4bet, but takes into account the player's PFR.

[kitkat16]

Hi there. This is till confusing me slightly.

Can you give us some examples of how the 4b range works?

eg: a 22/18 reg has a 3b of 7 and his 4b range is 2.0.

Does this mean he's 3 betting 7% of his entire range, and then of that 7% 3b range, he's only betting 2%?

If I'm in pokerstove and I put the villains range in at 15% and it turns the cards purple to show that vizualized range:
1) his 3 bet range would be 7% of all those purple cards and his 4b range would 2% of those purple cards? or is the 4b range 2% of the 18% PFR total?

hope this isn't too confusing.
Is there an article or guide to 4bet ranges and 4B%? seems really hard to find comprehensive info about it.
Thankyou

[udbrky]

No, this means he's 3bet 7% of the hands in which a player first PFR'd before it got to him. Let's say he's faced 200 raises, and he's 3bet 7% - 14 of them. This could be in 500 hands total played.

The 2% 4bet is hands in which he raised, and was 3-bet, he 4bet 2% of them.

3b and 4b have 0 correlation. They're different subsets of a player's PFR set.

a 4bet requires you to have raised, and been 3bet.

A 3bet requires another player to have raised.

4bet range is the range of hands that you raised, that you're 4betting when you are 3bet.

Think about it this way preflop:

bb = 1bet.
Raise = 2bet
Re-raise = 3bet
Re-re-raise = 4bet and so on.

This is from the limit days - when bets were counted as # of bets.