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Cafeman31
05-10-2011, 07:09 AM
Just a quick question. I understand that rake is calculated using the dealt method on PS. However, when I add the Rake as a column to see it on my reports, what does the dollar amount represent? Is it the amount I have ACTUALLY paid, or my share based on the dealt method?

For example, I've played 18K hands of 10nl 6max so far this month and the Rake figure = $239. Is that the amount that relates to my VPPs, or is that the actual amount that they've taken from my winnings? I.e. if there was no rake I would be $239 better off?

netsrak
05-10-2011, 08:53 AM
Its the amount calculated by the dealt method.

Cafeman31
05-10-2011, 09:26 AM
OK, so if the rake amount on my report says $239, is that figure the amount I would have won on top of my actual winnings if rake didn't exist? Or is it simply the proportion of rake taken while I was at the table?

Patvs
05-10-2011, 08:18 PM
PokerStars has a dealt-rake system (not weighed-contributed as now is the new system on Full Tilt).

So if you play extremely tight.... vs extremely loose, the dealt-rake system doesn't have a very large impact on your difference in playing style. Even if you play tight, you'll accumulate a lot of points/rake, since you also get rake when you FOLD and other players tangle for a big pot.

So it's your share based on the dealt method.
What you ACTUALLY paid depends on your playing style.



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On Full Tilt the rake column will be what you actually paid as they have a weighed-contributed method.

Cafeman31
05-11-2011, 02:43 AM
Thanks, but I already understand how it works on pokerstars. What I want to know is, what does the reported rake in HEM represent. The amount I actually paid or my share of the dealt rake, or the total dealt rake?

a) I'm HU and lose, pot was $1, rake = $0.06, will that show up on HEM as $0.06 on my report stats?
b) I'm HU and win, pot was $1, rake = $0.06, will that show up on HEM as $0.06 on my report stats?
c) I'm HU and it's a split pot, rake = $0.06, will that show up on HEM as $0.06 paid by me, OR $0.03 on my report stats?
d) I fold preflop but two others go on to HU and the rake is $0.06, will that show up on HEM as $0.06 or $0.00 on my report stats?

Do you see what I mean? I'm basically trying to work out how well I'm doing if we don't count rake. But if HEM is simply displaying total dealt rake, then I can't do that.

netsrak
05-11-2011, 03:55 AM
I can't answer this - can't you just check some sample hands to see how it works?
If not let me know and i forward this to our management.

Cafeman31
05-11-2011, 05:29 AM
I can't answer this - can't you just check some sample hands to see how it works?
OK, I'll do some investigating. I just thought someone on here would know.

EDIT: How can I look at this report stat on a hand by hand basis?

Cafeman31
05-11-2011, 09:09 AM
Ideally I'd like to find a way of displaying how much rake I've ACTUALLY paid on the hands I was involved with (whether or not I won, lost, or split the pot). That way I can see what impact it is having on my overall win rate.

netsrak
05-12-2011, 03:40 AM
I have forwarded your thread as i don't think there is a simple solution.

Patvs
05-12-2011, 12:55 PM
The rake column in HoldemManager shows the MGR.
If you play on Full Tilt (or any weight contributed site, which are most sites now) the MGR will be the same as the actual Rake Paid.
On PokerStars... it will also be the same... if you have an average playing style.


From what I understand with dealt-rake:

Suppose you play at a 6max table.
Two players battle for a pot. $2 rake.
So those players pay $1 rake each.

However... you will get VPP points for that hand $2/6 = $0.33 worth of points.
And it's the $0.33 that is added to your rake column.

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If you were involved in the hand.
You and another player battle for a pot. $2 rake.
So you have paid $1 in rake.
But you will get VPP points for that hand $2/6 = $0.33 worth of points.
And it's the $0.33 that is added to your rake column. (not $1).

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Whether you get $1 for the hand you were actually involved in and $0 for the big hands you weren't (weight-contributed method).... or you get $0.33 for ALL of them will lead to the SAME (or close to the same) END RESULT.

So you can just add your $239 of the rake column on top of your actual winnings to see your winnings if rake didn't exist.

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Except... if you play a lot looser than average... or a lot tighter. Unfortunately, HoldemManager can't calculate your individual rake (Rake Paid), since that's not how dealt-rake works. Your VPP/rakeback will all be based on the dealt-rake method.

Though we can and might add a weight contributed rake method stat for all dealt-rake sites (and vice versa) at some point, so you can see the influence of the difference of the rake methods.



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Note: PokerTableRatings had a great article on this subject
Dealt Rakeback Rewards The Nits (http://www.pokertableratings.com/blog/2010/09/dealt-rakeback-rewards-the-nits/)

and
How Much Do You Pay To Play (http://www.pokertableratings.com/blog/2010/08/how-much-do-you-pay-to-play/)

Cafeman31
05-12-2011, 01:36 PM
I see, so it averages out as being correct (i.e. what I actually paid) unless I am overly tight or loose. Thanks for the explanation.