Aggression Frequency / Aggression percentage

[NijntjeNL]

Agg Pct:
Aggression percentage can be anything from 0-100 and is based on an aggressive action on each street. So if I bet the turn and the river but check the flop I would have 66% Agg Pct because I made 2 out of 3 aggressive actions.

Source: http://faq.holdemmanager.com/questions/95/Stat+Definitions#aggression

I'm getting the idea (from this text) that this differs from aggression frequency in calcuations, am I right that:

Aggression Frequency = (Bets + Raises) / (Bets + Raises + Calls + Folds)
and
Aggression Percentage in HEM = (Bets + Raises) / (Bets + Raises + Calls + Checks)

That'd make a whole lot of different and I'm dying to know. Thanks in advance for taking your time to help me out here.

------

Also, the above quote seems to refer only to post-flop play. Isn't pre-flop play taken into consideration in the formulae?

[Patvs]

Aggression Factor = (Bets + Raises) / Calls
(checking/folding doesn't affect it)

This results in a value between 0 and INF (infinite)
If a player never CALLS, but always bets/raises, his AGG will be infinite.

The stats are used in postflop decision making. Since it will tell you the likelihood the opponent will bet.


Aggression Percentage = aggressive action on each street. So if I bet the turn and the river but check the flop I would have 66% Agg Pct because I made 2 out of 3 aggressive actions.

So it's ( (Bets + Raises) / (Bets + Raises + Calls + Checks ) * 100%.

In the example above the action results in a Agg Pct of 66%.
The Agg Factor would be: 2 / 1 = 2
Both results mean the same: the opponent is 2x more likely to bet, than he is to call.

[NijntjeNL]

Does checking and folding affect aggression percentage?

[Patvs]

b/b/b - AF: inf, AFq: 100, Agg Pct: 100
b/x/b - AF: inf, AFq: 100, Agg Pct: 67
b/x/x - AF: inf, AFq: 100, Agg Pct: 33
b/x/c - AF: 1.0, AFq: 50, Agg Pct: 33
b/c/c - AF: 0.5, AFq: 33, Agg Pct: 33

[Mercadiator]

I'm really confused here.

I see 3 different things in Patvs his reply:
1) Aggression Factor,
2) Aggression Frequency,
3) and Aggression Percentage

What are the formulas for each of these 3 stats,
and also, Aggression Frequency seems to have disappeared in my HM2.
While Patvs has made a very clear difference between 3 different stats in his examples.

So can someone please clarify this?

[Patvs]

Aggression Frequency also isn't used in HM1.
Either PokerTracker uses it, or people on 2+2 sometimes use it.


We only use Aggression Factor and Aggression Percentage.

The formulas:
Aggression Factor: (% Raise + % Bet) / % Call
Aggression Frequency: (Times Raised + Times Bet) / (Times Raised + Times Bet + Times Called + Times Folded)


Aggression Percentage = aggressive action on each street. So if I bet the turn and the river but check the flop I would have 66% Agg Pct because I made 2 out of 3 aggressive actions.
So it's ( (Bets + Raises) / (Bets + Raises + Calls + Checks ) * 100%.

[Mercadiator]

Thank you, this clarifies a lot :)

[Patvs]

Aggression Frequency is very similar to Aggression Percentage

Aggression Frequency: (Bets + Raises) / (Bets + Raises + Calls + Folds) * 100%
Aggression Percentage = (Bets + Raises) / (Bets + Raises + Calls + Checks) * 100%

Aggression Factor: (Bets + Raise) / Calls

[felderosa]

I am confused. None of the algebraic formulas for agg% mention checking, but in the table you used, checking is clearly being used to calculate agg%.

[udbrky]

I'm sorry to hear you're having issues with this and I apologize for the delay. I have escalated this to our 2nd level support techs and have explained the issues you are having and they will be in touch shortly to help resolve the problem.

[nimi22]

I'm sorry to hear you're having issues with this and I apologize for the delay. I have escalated this to our 2nd level support techs and have explained the issues you are having and they will be in touch shortly to help resolve the problem.

What was the answer to that? is Agg PCT include checking and folding or is it just (Bets + Raises) / (Bets + Raises + Calls) * 100% ?

Thanks

[Patvs]

I am confused. None of the algebraic formulas for agg% mention checking, but in the table you used, checking is clearly being used to calculate agg%.



Aggression Frequency: ((Bets + Raises) / (Bets + Raises + Calls + Folds)) * 100%

Aggression Percentage = ((Bets + Raises) / ((Bets + Raises) + (Calls + Checks))) * 100% (Aggression Percentage = aggressive action on each street. So if I bet the turn and the river but check the flop I would have 66% Agg Pct because I made 2 out of 3 aggressive actions.)

Aggression Factor: (Bets + Raise) / Calls


b/b/b - AF: inf, AFq: 100, Agg Pct: 100
b/x/b - AF: inf, AFq: 100, Agg Pct: 67
b/x/x - AF: inf, AFq: 100, Agg Pct: 33
b/x/c - AF: 1.0, AFq: 50, Agg Pct: 33
b/c/c - AF: 0.5, AFq: 33, Agg Pct: 33

b = bet
x = check
c = call

[Patvs]

I am confused. None of the algebraic formulas for agg% mention checking, but in the table you used, checking is clearly being used to calculate agg%.



You're right. I had to add + Checking in the formula's for all my previous post. (I edited the posts just now)

[ubaron@gmail.com]

Patvs, parentheses matter and can change the formula!

In previous posts, you wrote this formula for Agg%:

A) (Bets + Raises) / (Bets + Raises) + Calls + Checks

In more recent posts, the formula you wrote for Agg% is:

B) (Bets + Raises) / (Bets + Raises + Calls + Checks)

Which makes a lot more sense.

Please confirm that the formula is indeed B and not A.

Thanks.

[udbrky]

I'm sorry to hear you're having issues with this and I apologize for the delay. I have escalated this to our 2nd level support techs and have explained the issues you are having and they will be in touch shortly to help resolve the problem.

[Patvs]

The formula is B.


Aggression Percentage:
(Bets + Raises) / (Bets + Raises + Calls + Checks)


(in my last post I wrote: Aggression Percentage = ((Bets + Raises) / ((Bets + Raises) + (Calls + Checks))) * 100%)


Remember Aggression Percentage doesn't look at the percentage you bet/raise/check, etc. but at the number of aggressive actions out of all actions.

[andrea b]

The formula is B.


Aggression Percentage:
(Bets + Raises) / (Bets + Raises + Calls + Checks)


(in my last post I wrote: Aggression Percentage = ((Bets + Raises) / ((Bets + Raises) + (Calls + Checks))) * 100%)


Remember Aggression Percentage doesn't look at the percentage you bet/raise/check, etc. but at the number of aggressive actions out of all actions.

hi :) you can explain pls? i miss something?

hi you can explain pls? i miss something?

I have 1 oppo with 17 hands on river (i see with filter "saw river")
on this 17 hands oppo make river action with 14 hands:

Bet 2
check 5
fold 1
call 1
check/fold 3
chek/raise/fold 1
chek/call 1


now ...(Bets + Raises) / (Bets + Raises + Calls + Checks) * 100

how its possible a river Agg% 17,6?

[andrea b]

edit: i have one more simple case!
filtred hands with "saw river".
we have 6 action at river
5 check
1 bet

now River AF its 2 ??

but River agg % (Bets + Raises) / (Bets + Raises + Calls + Checks) * 100

1/6 * 100 = 16% and not 10,00 like the attached file

[Patvs]

Saw river = true is not a good filter to then focus on river aggression stats, since the filter will include hands where you are allin on an earlier street.




"saw river".
we have 6 action at river
5 check
1 bet


There will be some hands where you didn't have the opportunity to make an aggressive action.
I count 10 hands in the report. The other 4 hands are also used for the AF and Agg stat in this report.

So you only made one aggressive river action 1 out of 10 hands.

[Catalyst_Kh]

Please explain one more thing about this topic. I read it well and understand the math, but there are two points i am not sure, please help me with that.

1) If we have a line, where a player IP had something like b/c/x, then we have AF=1 (Aggression Factor), AF%=33%, that is quite clear, but what if the player folded to bet at the river? AF still be 1, that is clear, but would that fold count as missed chance for aggression? Will AF% be 50% here or 33% here?

2) If there were multiple chances to make an aggressive choice at one street, would it be count differently for AF%? For example, if a player IP made RR/C/C, it would be AF=1, but would it be count as 2 aggressive choices at the flop for AF%? Or it will be only one fact of any aggression at flop for AF%? Thus, will AF% be 50% here, or AF% will show only 33%, because only one street of three streets had aggressive choice(s)?

There are some players with Flop AF (Aggression Factor) like 20-40, but Flop AF% only like 20%-35%, so i would like to better understand, which lines of play leads to such uncommon stats.

Thank you in advance for any light on this.

[Patvs]

1.

If the line is b/c/x (check-fold on the river) (--> Aggression Percentage: is 33% [1/3])
or b/c/fold (fold to a bet on the river) (--> Aggression Percentage: is 50% [1/2])

in both hands the AF = 1.0

If on the river, the player bets (but then still folds to a re-raise), his bet still count as an aggressive act. (so the line will be b/c/b Bet-Fold river) for an Aggression Percentage of 66% [2/3])



Though suppose a player calls a bet on the river: Player1 bets, HERO calls, then another player Player3 3bets--> Player1 folds--> suddenly HERO 4bets---> Player3 5bets allin--> HERO folds.

In this example the hero makes two actions on the river, both calling and raising (4bet).
(I could give a different example where a player check-raises the river)

When this occurs, the call (call-4bet) or check (as part of the check-raise) are irrelevant because there still is one aggressive action on this street.

Aggressive Percentage only check if there is at least one aggressive action on a certain street.
Similarly if the action on the river is Player1 bets, HERO 3bets, Player1 4bets, HERO 5bets
although the player makes two aggressive actions it will only count as one, resulting in a River Agg% of 100% (1/1)



2. Aggression Factor does look at multiple actions on a single street.
RR/C/C AF = 2/2 = 1.0
R/C/C = 1/2 = 0.5

[Catalyst_Kh]

Thank you very much Patvs. So, AF% counts both checks and folds in it's denominator, that is clear.

Once i met a player (in zoom poker), for whom i had only 10 hands, but his Overall AF was 29 at the same time, so i thought it is exactly because he had multiple bets or raises at some streets during those 10 hands, or there is just no other way his AF can reach 29 for only 10 hands played. So, if Factor also (as AF%) doesn't count multiple aggression acts per one street and counts those as a fact of at least one, then it means, that player had all 10 hands played to the river and had 10 flops, 10 turns and 10 rivers, where he bet or raised 29 times and only one time called. So, for that street, where he called, the AF will be as 9, while for other streets it would be inf (or 10 insteed of inf in HM2).

Is that correct?

[Patvs]

I edited my previous post.



If the line is b/c/x (check-fold on the river) (--> Aggression Percentage: is 33% [1/3])
or b/c/fold (fold to a bet on the river) (--> Aggression Percentage: is 50% [1/2])

in both hands the AF = 1.0

If on the river, the player bets (but then still folds to a re-raise), his bet still count as an aggressive act. (so the line will be b/c/b Bet-Fold river) for an Aggression Percentage of 66% [2/3])



The confusion -for me- was Aggressive Frequency takes folds into account. (PokerTracker users are used to this stat). Aggression Percentage does not.

[Catalyst_Kh]

So, AF% counts both checks and folds in it's denominator, that is clear.
Patvs, now your message shows, what fold actions doesn't counts in AF% demoninator. While initially there was 33% for both b/c/x and b/c/fold to bet (in position, thus no check) lines in your post (for case 1). Did you updated your post in between or i just had a glitch? :(

[Catalyst_Kh]

Aah, thanks once again, now it is all clear.

Does my assumption about that AF 29 player correct though?

[Patvs]

Player you have 10 hands on with a AF = 29.

I'm looking at some reports now.
It looks like HM2 uses AF = 6 in the reports if you b/b/b in a hand.
And if you play two of those hands where you b/b/b you'll get a AF = 12


If you b/b/bc (bet-call the river) it results in a AF = 3
If you b/bc/bc the AF for this hand is 1.50

So AF does take into account multiple action on a single street. (Agg% will always be 100% and is not affected)




Edited post #22 again!

[Patvs]

BR/B/B (bet-raise on the flop) --> AF = 8.0

[Patvs]

So AF gives a value of 2 for each aggressive action.
I'm guessing it's doing this to avoid a calculation where it has to do: 'x times infinite divided by y'.

I also imported a B/B/B hand in HM1. HM1 can't display the AF for this hand. (it shows 'na' = not available)


If you play two hands b/b/b HM2 will show your AF = 12. ( + [b/b/b = 6]) (so HM2 adds the two values)
If you play one hand b/b/b and the other as x/b/c ([b/b/b = 6] + [x/b/c = 1])[B]/2 (then HM2 will average the two values)

[Catalyst_Kh]

Ah! What an immortal topic! :)

Yes, during the game at zoom table i met a player, for which my hud showed only 10 hands total, and at the same time Postflop AF was 29 at the hud (may be 28, don't remember for sure), i didn't opened popups thought, thus i don't know for which streets that was for details. So, you are saying, it could be only 14 aggressive actions in total (from maximum of 30 ever possible) without any calls ever. Is that correct?

Please confirm, which cases are correct from the following:

1) HM2 uses amount of all aggressive actions multiplied by two as a confortable replacement of inf index; (before i thought it uses just direct amount, without x2)

2) AF% doesn't takes multiple actions per one street, it takes any aggressive action per street as 1/1 and any amount of non-agressive actions (like 3 calls in a row at one street in 3way pot, where two other players are reraising) as 0/1;

3) AFactor does takes any amout of multiple actions per one street, but calculates only bets, raises and calls from all actions at that street. Thus, for example, in MW pot a player can play at the flop as X/R/R/C/Fold to next Reraise and that would be count as AF=2/1 for this street.

Thank you very much for your patience, i can only imagine how silly it might look for you, when i am asking the same things once again. But i just got confused with that new input...

[Patvs]

Yes, if his AF was 28.
He made 14 aggressive actions, without any calls.

1. Yes.*

2. Yes. It only looks if there was an aggressive action on this street.

3. Yes.*

*And somehow HM2 realizes when it should average the AF, and when (when the AF was 'infinite') it should add them together. I just added Flop Agg, Turn Agg and River Agg as separate stats to my reports. I have a new database with only 2 hands. (a B/X/C hand... and a BR/B/B hand)

It's interesting to see it shows
Flop Agg = 6.0 (BR + B = 4 + 2)
Turn Agg = 2.0 (B + X = 2)
River Agg = 1.0 (B + C)

[Catalyst_Kh]

It's interesting to see it shows
Flop Agg = 6.0 (BR + B = 4 + 2)
Turn Agg = 2.0 (B + X = 2)
River Agg = 1.0 (B + C)
Even more interesting to see, what would be Overall Postflop AF in this case for this two hands. :) Would it be AF=5, as 5 aggressive actions total to one call total, or would it be AF=9, when actual call will go to the denominator only per river aggressive actions, while for other streets the inf-replacement index would be used?

[Patvs]

114941

see screenshot :)

[Catalyst_Kh]

Thank you once again! Now everything is distinct.