trackerbase.net / PostgreSQL hosting for poker players!

[no luck involved]

trackerbase.net (https://trackerbase.net) is providing PostgreSQL databases which you can access from everywhere on the net.

For you that means:

No more need to sync your database between your laptop and desktop, because you access the same database from every computer you play on.
No more worries about backups, because we do them for you.
Some people will realize a speedup on their home computer, because PostgeSQL server isn't taking all the memory.



Of course you can import your already existing data into our database. We provide a simple tool for that, which makes that step really easy.

With this service you can get rid of your local PostgreSQL installation.
Save the the time and energy, you spend on dealing with your database, to do what you love most: To play poker!

You can find more information on our websites howto (https://trackerbase.net/howto/) and faq (https://trackerbase.net/faq/). If you have any further questions, contact our support (https://trackerbase.net/support/)or leave a posting here.


14-days free, no strings attached.
try it out (https://trackerbase.net)

[siriuslly]

Is anyone using this service?

[The Minder]

I wouldn't touch this with a barge pole.

[no luck involved]

May I ask why?

I totally see that you might not want to put your hand history in the hand of a 3rd party. Everyone has to make up his mind about the convenience and security/privacy trade-off. The only thing I can do is to tell you, that we do not use your data. We don't touch it besides making backups.

You can believe us and trust us on that part or you can decide not to trust us and deal with the inconvenience of a local database.

It is pretty much the same as using a email service provider and not setting up your own mail server.

[lonelycube]

If you use SSDs this might get interesting :)

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this guy puts his name and mailing address on the contact page. Haven't seen that in the poker business before. I like the email comparison!

[Veteran68]

If you use SSDs this might get interesting :)
:confused: Wouldn't make a difference. The internet connection is going to be far slower than even a slow 5400rpm mechanical drive, let alone an SSD.

[Polar_Bears]

If you use SSDs this might get interesting :)

SSD's?

[lonelycube]

@Verteran68: with SSDs the setup MIGHT have chance to work. but I doubt it. Too much drawbacks (slowness) anyway for the single benefit of having a database handy if you mainly use a desktop and occasionally a laptop. The only REAL use would be if you want to share a database. but this is not allowed during play. so not an option for me but it doesnt say anything about the quality of the service. havent tried it either and not going to.

[no luck involved]

this guy puts his name and mailing address on the contact page. Haven't seen that in the poker business before. I like the email comparison!

German law requires to put a mailing address on the website. And since the company is located in Germany,...

[no luck involved]

Regarding to speed: Everyone saying that this is going to be way to slow, should try it out first and make a statement afterwards. There are people using this successfully and I heard no complains about speed so far.

[The Minder]

..

[Veteran68]

Regarding to speed: Everyone saying that this is going to be way to slow, should try it out first and make a statement afterwards. There are people using this successfully and I heard no complains about speed so far.

I don't know that you're referring to me, but for the record, I never said it would be "too slow" to be useful. I was merely responding to the assertion that the host using SSD's would make a difference. It won't, because even the fastest internet connection has far less bandwidth that even an old, slow mechanical drive connection. Much less an SSD.

I would imagine for ordinary hand-by-hand importing and HUD usage, there probably won't be a dramatic difference in performance. OTOH running large batch imports, or reports/queries that return a large result set will take noticeably longer than with a local database.

[no luck involved]

I don't know that you're referring to me, but for the record, I never said it would be "too slow" to be useful. I was merely responding to the assertion that the host using SSD's would make a difference. It won't, because even the fastest internet connection has far less bandwidth that even an old, slow mechanical drive connection. Much less an SSD.

True.



I would imagine for ordinary hand-by-hand importing and HUD usage, there probably won't be a dramatic difference in performance. OTOH running large batch imports, or reports/queries that return a large result set will take noticeably longer than with a local database.

Also true. They take longer. But not in a way that really effects you. During the time critical operations (and that is while you are playing) you will not notice any difference between a local database and our service.

Importing a huge initial database is the biggest problem. When you have a slow connection, this process (which you only have to do once) will take a long time (depending on your upstream connection speed). Our backend provides you with the capability to upload a compressed archive file (7zip) which will save you around 60% of an uncompressed import, but if you have a huge database it still will take a long time.

[lonelycube]

I made the effort and tested this service with PT3 and HEM.
I have a 32mbit down/1mbit up connection with a ping of 12-16ms.
The date of testing was March 6-7, 2011

PT3
I created a PT database with the web-frontend. Had no trouble to connect to that database with the data provided by TB. I manually imported hands from big files for a couple of minutes. 25hands/s. all the housekeeping stuff worked flawlessly. Only issue was a couple of hand import errors that indicates that the prepared database uses UTF8 encoding while PT3 still uses ASCII. (On a second local test database I got no errors importing the same files.) I played 4 Rush tables with the almost empty database. No delays at all.

HEM
At the time of testing the task of preparing a database for HEM was broken (which is supposed to be fix by now). I created a test database and wanted to upload it by means of the provided script. That failed because I use Postgres 9 instead of Postgres 8 which comes with HEM. Support was kind enough to show me a workaround which worked and I was able to upload my database. Suprisingly for me it worked on a Postgres 8 server.
I initiated the same import as with PT3. Import speed was 10hands/sec.
This time I just played 2 Rush tables. No delay again.

I have a hotmail email address and apparently hotmail blocks the emails from trackerbase. Didn't even show up in the spam folder. I changed the email to a gmail one and everything was good.

Hope that helps anyone who considers using this service.

[The Minder]

Cube... I understand what you're trying to do and I applaud you for your initiative, but introducing another level of complexity to a user base who need help just getting out of bed in the morning is not going to do it.

Let's talk timing. I have a DSL internet connection and the ping time from me to a major server only 40 miles away is 65ms. And that server is 12,000 miles from your server with a whole bunch of switches, routers, cables, fibre and assorted addons in the way. Yes, I understand about comms speeds approaching the speed of light etc, but that's not the issue. You're prolly best placed to do a speed test and I'm prolly worst placed. The average is somewhere in between, however the response time to my crappy old WD HD is 32ms so no matter what you or the rest of the internet infrastructure does you are not going to beat an in situ HD.

Let's talk backups. For more than 30 years in the IT game I have stressed to all my clients "don't bother with programs or operating systems, but back up your data". You're offering a backup service, but this is a backup of the db which is really inconsequential. The critical thing to backup is the hand histories, which you don't back up. Besides, every MS o/s since Win XP has had an auto backup/restore feature that works damn well. I'm also here to tell you that in all my time I have never once lost data off a client's HD... despite floods, lightning strikes and idiocy I have always recovered data. And this is something that any mom & pop computer store can do.

Let's talk mobility. You say we can access our data on your server from anywhere. Where am I going to go to want to use that feature?... and when I get there what computer am I going to use? I'm not going to use someone else's box just to play poker. I'm going to use my own laptop which has my db right there on the HD.

I could go on but I think you get where I'm coming from.

[no luck involved]

First of all, I want to say that lonelycube has nothing to do with this service. He did the test on his own. I'm not sure, but your post somehow sounds a little like you think that he is somehow involved with the project: That is not the case!
I just wanted to clarify that.



Let's talk timing. I have a DSL internet connection and the ping time from me to a major server only 40 miles away is 65ms. And that server is 12,000 miles from your server with a whole bunch of switches, routers, cables, fibre and assorted addons in the way. Yes, I understand about comms speeds approaching the speed of light etc, but that's not the issue. You're prolly best placed to do a speed test and I'm prolly worst placed. The average is somewhere in between, however the response time to my crappy old WD HD is 32ms so no matter what you or the rest of the internet infrastructure does you are not going to beat an in situ HD.

No one said, that the server beats your local Postgres server in speed. The thing is: It doesn't need to. Even a 500ms delay is by far fast enough. The data your HUD is using, is going to be cached anyways. The only disadvantage you get is that the Hold'em Manager startup process will take a little longer.



Let's talk backups. For more than 30 years in the IT game I have stressed to all my clients "don't bother with programs or operating systems, but back up your data". You're offering a backup service, but this is a backup of the db which is really inconsequential. The critical thing to backup is the hand histories, which you don't back up. Besides, every MS o/s since Win XP has had an auto backup/restore feature that works damn well. I'm also here to tell you that in all my time I have never once lost data off a client's HD... despite floods, lightning strikes and idiocy I have always recovered data. And this is something that any mom & pop computer store can do.

That is just wrong. Once you backup your database, you also backup your hand history. Because that is just a subset of all the data in the database. You have a backup of your database, you also have backup of all the hands you played plus the additional information.



Let's talk mobility. You say we can access our data on your server from anywhere. Where am I going to go to want to use that feature?... and when I get there what computer am I going to use? I'm not going to use someone else's box just to play poker. I'm going to use my own laptop which has my db right there on the HD.


This is actually exactly the use case this service was build for. I just hated the fact that whenever I played on with my laptop on the road, I had to sync back my database afterwards. Because normally of course I play on my big screen at my desktop. With this service there is no need to sync anymore. The automatic backup is just an extra to that fact. You can have a simple backup much easier (and probably cheaper).

[lonelycube]

@minder... I am laughing my head off. Im not a native english speaker but I love the phrase in your first paraphaph. maybe its just standard ;-)

Would be actually interesting if someone from the other side of the pond (that would be the US ;-) ) can give some info about speeds. especially on large databases.
I tried to exclude any assumptions in my report.

I only got into this because I made the sloppy statement about the SSD in the beginning and then got curious. the geek inside was calling.
I still think that the target group for this service is very small. including fast harddrives (SSDs maybe) might get the guys who import a lot and tablescan a lot and cant affort a SSD yet. Everyone who owns a SSD will likely agreed that it has been their best investment they ever made regarding speeding up their system. Providing an upload folder and import hands overnight on behalf of the user might be an idea as well. anyways..

Spent enough time here for just testing. Hope my input was appreciated.

good luck at the tables.

over and out

[The Minder]

First of all, I want to say that lonelycube has nothing to do with this service. He did the test on his own.

Yeah... my bad... I had too many threads open at the same time and confused my sel.

Apologies to Cube.

[The Minder]

That is just wrong. Once you backup your database, you also backup your hand history. Because that is just a subset of all the data in the database. You have a backup of your database, you also have backup of all the hands you played plus the additional information.

I do not agree with this. HM recently had an issue with incorrect EV calculation. The only was to resolve the issue (after updating to the corrected version) was to delete the hands from the db and reimport from HH. HH is always the first source data, the db is not.

Like cube, I shall now retire to the background. Gl with the project and at the tables.