is it possible?

[skylost85]

am I the most fortunate man of the earth or is there something strange?The first chart represents sng superturbo, turbo , and regular!! The second chart only regular. I play at bwin. What are the possible causes of a chart where the two lines are so different? Have I made all in where I left allways in disadvantage or can there be also other explanations?


http://img121.imageshack.us/img121/9298/grafff.jpg




http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/7978/grafff2.jpg

[acme003]

BBV is that way-->
hmm or that way ^^
:)

[Patvs]

You're just fortunate.

There are two main reasons for the EV difference.
-1 You WIN most SNGs. (more than finishing 2th or 3th)
I'm sure there are some KEY allin hands you win (when you're already in the money).

Example ALLIN 50% vs 50%. Both you and your opponent have 6000 chips stacks. 1th place wins $45, 2th place wins $27. ($10 SNG)
If you WIN this SNG your EV Diff is -$9
(50%*45)+(50%*27)= $36 (--> EV Diff will be -$9)

Key hands in the bubble are even more important.

-2 You can be fortunate if your opponents constantly go allin against each other and the biggerstack WINS.
Allin hands you're NOT involved in also influence your EV.

[skylost85]

Thanks for the reply. A big help.

I would have more questions:

1)How can we set, evaluate and understand the line graph of non-shodown to truly understand the dynamics of our game?

2)If from the BB we fold fairly a trash hand , but the opponents go to the showdown and for chance we closed a draw, the red line in this case where goes down or on?

3)It is true that if we steal little blind, even if often with justice, the red line comes down?

4)What does the red line if we call a threebet and then we fold the opponent's c-bet on the flop?What if we do too many c-bet and than we fold against a reraise?

5)''In any case where we go allin preflop with AA, the red line will rise. '' It is correct?

6)What are the factors that do not affect at all the red line? There are other factors affecting it in addition to calculations of ICM?

7)We can understand that we have a leak looking the red line? how? how much having large the champion for being able to be truthful?

8)'' If we will win going allin preflop with AA, the green line will rise over the red, but both will be positive. Instead, the difference between the two, it will appear as a negative value, because we won more than what we should have. If we will lose the hand instead, the red one will go up in the same way, while the green will come down. The ev diff it will be clearly positive. '' It is right?

thank you very much. :)

[skylost85]

What are the differences of the ev line between tournaments sng and tournament heads up?

[morny]

Hi,

there is a FAQ created and also a video as these type of questions come up regularly, you can check it out here FAQ - Hold'em Manager Poker Tracking Software :: EV Explained (http://faq.holdemmanager.com/questions/120/EV+Explained)

If i was competent enough id try to answer your questions in detail but my EV knowledge isnt so good, youll find tons of discussions on 2+2 and other Poker forums or maybe someone else more familiar can chime in

[skylost85]

Thank you. Unfortunately I already knew that article :( . Before asking these questions I did extensive research on the Forum of HM (I read topic type ENTER THE SECT and many others) and also outside the forum of HM but still I did not find a precise answer to these questions :( .

[Patvs]

1) Non-showdown line in cashgames:
It's really not that important. However, if you can keep it relatively horizontal, it's a sign you pick up enough pots by cbetting/semi-bluffing/bluffing.

If it goes straight down, it doesn't mean anything, it all depends what your showdown line looks like. If your showdown line is positive and you have a positive winrate, DON'T focus on the non-showdown line. If you have a negative winrate, you should improve your overall game by NOT folding the best hand and winning more hands by (semi-)bluffing.

2) Can you rephrase: "If from the BB we fold fairly a trash hand , but the opponents go to the showdown and for chance we closed a draw"

4) If you keep calling 3bets and fold to his cbet it's disastrous for your non-showdown line and it will go negative. It's similarly disastrous if you keep cbetting and then fold to a reraise.


5)''In any case where we go allin preflop with AA, the red line will rise. ''
Yes, since you will mostly NOT be called. And any hand you WIN where you're NOT called will have a positive influence on your non-showdown winnings.


6) Any showdown winning/loss does NOT effect the non-showdown winnings.
ALL other hands do.


7) With 6max you definately should NOT have a non-showdown line that goes straight down. For fullring, it's less important: the more players, the better hands go to showdown, the more difficult it is to have players fold.
Especially on micro-limits it may be IMPOSSIBLE to have your opponents fold, since they'll always want to go to showdown.

8) YES
Though you're confusing me now, if you mean the "EV LINE" or the "non-showdown winnings line" with what you call the "red line"





What are the differences of the ev line between tournaments sng and tournament heads up?


They're the same for SINGLE TABLE tournaments (STT) and Heads Up tournaments. Though the STT will have several phases effecting EV differently (early, bubble, in the money, headsup)