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View Full Version : Full Tilt Rake Dealt vs. weighted



billtimbob
09-30-2010, 08:41 AM
Full Tilt Poker now uses a different method to determine rake (and thus, rakeback). Instead of using the dealt rake to the entire table, rake is now based on each individual's involvement in the hand (weighted contributed).

How do I get Holdem Manager to show me the new, correct rake number? Right now it just shows the rake for the entire table.

Tirppa
09-30-2010, 08:58 AM
I'm pretty sure you have to wait for an update.

netsrak
09-30-2010, 10:19 AM
Our rake stat calculates the rake site - specific. We will update it for FTP.

wagon30
09-30-2010, 05:06 PM
I'm not sure I understand this response. Did HEM (before FT change) count the rake we actually paid or the rake accumulated for the purposes of rakeback?

SWeblin
09-30-2010, 06:54 PM
Our rake stat calculates the rake site - specific. We will update it for FTP.

When you update this, would it be possible to retain the old rake stat for comparison purposes?

Thanks,
-S

Patvs
10-01-2010, 12:50 AM
I'm not sure I understand this response. Did HEM (before FT change) count the rake we actually paid or the rake accumulated for the purposes of rakeback?

Before the FT change, HM displayed the MGR as rake for Full Tilt. (based on a "Dealt Rake" calculation). And if you took 27% of the rake (=MGR) you'd know precisely how much rakeback you'd get.

After the FT change, in the next HM update, it will still display the rake (=MGR), but it will be calculated based on a "Weighed Contributed" method, so it will much, much LOWER for 99% of all players.



When you update this, would it be possible to retain the old rake stat for comparison purposes?


We could add the old formula as a custom stat (so you can compare it in the REPORTS tab), but I think you'd need to reimport all your hands if you'd like to compare the rake for all the hands you've played in the past

SWeblin
10-01-2010, 12:58 AM
We could add the old formula as a custom stat (so you can compare it in the REPORTS tab), but I think you'd need to reimport all your hands if you'd like to compare the rake for all the hands you've played in the past

k, thats sounds a little too complicated. nm

russb
10-01-2010, 01:15 AM
Can you guys please add an option to view rake as our choice of MGR, weighted contributed, contributed, etc? It'd be nice to see how much more or less we'd make with each system.

netsrak
10-01-2010, 03:41 AM
This is not an available feature at the moment. Please suggest it or vote for it in our suggestions area: Suggestions Forums - Holdem Manager Forums (http://forums.holdemmanager.com/suggestions-forums/)

schummlalala
10-01-2010, 04:00 AM
We could add the old formula as a custom stat (so you can compare it in the REPORTS tab), but I think you'd need to reimport all your hands if you'd like to compare the rake for all the hands you've played in the past

Please do this. I think all players would like to compare the old to the new method before switching to PokerStars.

schummlalala
10-01-2010, 04:12 AM
I found a custom stat at Poker Strategy, is the code correct?

Edit: Why does the code not show up here, some sort of filter in the board software?


<stat columnname="WCRake" valueexpressions="SUM(pkh.rakeamount * (phmisc.postamountpreflop + phmisc.betamountpreflop + phmisc.callamountpreflop + COALESCE(flop.betamount + flop.callamount, 0) + COALESCE(turn.betamount + turn.callamount, 0) + COALESCE(river.betamount + river.callamount, 0)) * 1. / (pkh.potsize + pkh.rakeamount)) * 0.01 AS WCRake" evaluate="WCRake" columnheader="WC Rake" columnformat="$0.00" columnwidth="*" tooltip="Weighted Contributed Rake">

FTP ist ab heute Weighted Contributed | Full Tilt Poker | Das PokerStrategy.com Forum (http://de.pokerstrategy.com/forum/thread.php?threadid=928875&threadview=0&hilight=&hilightuser=0&page=3)</stat>

Spieli
10-01-2010, 07:55 AM
It's not, the potsize is usually higher than the actual potsize FTP calculates the rake from, unless the hand went to showdown...

leoslayer
10-01-2010, 09:06 AM
ok we need a way to compare but we also all need to email them and complain about this bs.

on 2+2 they said they are reading all feed back on this matter.

we might have a chance to get them to change back

tantram
10-02-2010, 01:55 PM
ok we need a way to compare but we also all need to email them and complain about this bs.

on 2+2 they said they are reading all feed back on this matter.

we might have a chance to get them to change back

Lets hope not.

mass multitabling Nits and/or rakeback breakeven players can move on to PS, leaving full tilt with action tables.

I think its fantastic.

We probably won't agree anytime soon, so no need to start a flame war here. Just saying, not everyone is against this ;)

Patvs
10-02-2010, 05:50 PM
The problem is, the majority of the mass multitabling nits / rakeback breakeven players are not going to move to PS,... nor are they going to change their playing style in order to generate more weighted contributed rake.

And these players still generate more rake for Full Tilt when multitabling, than the loose 1-tabling fish, therefore it's rather strange Full Tilt (unlike PokerStars) doesn't reward their highvolume players.

Stuv
10-02-2010, 11:33 PM
I am stunned that it has been been over 60 hours since FT changed their rake structure and HEM hasn't released a quick update that calculates it correctly. You guys are usually so fast when it comes to this. I'm assuming I'm going to have to re-import every hand that I've played since the change for HEM to tell me my correct WCR?

Patvs
10-03-2010, 12:06 AM
You'll have to reimport the september 30+ hands.
(delete them first, then reimport them)

The new rake calculation should be in the next HM update.

knn05
10-03-2010, 12:05 PM
Do you guys have a custom stat that I can put into the reports?

Any idea how long it will be before an update that includes rake paid based on the old system and a new column with the rake paid in the new system?

onlymymissiscallsmedonkey
10-03-2010, 02:51 PM
We could add the old formula as a custom stat (so you can compare it in the REPORTS tab), but I think you'd need to reimport all your hands if you'd like to compare the rake for all the hands you've played in the past

YES please do this.

Also while I understand that updates take time and need testing the developers obviously know the code for weighted contributed rake as they use it already to calculate the rake on other sites that use this method.

Please can they post a custom stat for weighted contributed rake, make it unofficial if they like to cover themselves, for us to use so we can compare how the rake changes effect us without having to wait for an update. That would be great of them.

guitarizt
10-04-2010, 02:53 AM
Please come out with a contributed rake stat.

Elrazor
10-04-2010, 12:25 PM
I was actually really surprised to see that HEM didn't have different rake calculations as built in stats - for many players, rakeback makes up a significant portion of their income, so by moving to a site that bets suits their style, they could make an easy increase in their income.

MyHEMAccount
10-06-2010, 11:30 AM
The new rake calculation should be in the next HM update.

will the new rake calculation be applied to ALL hands even before Oct. 1st 2010?

is it too late to ask for you to give some input as to have it separated if its not already done so?

netsrak
10-07-2010, 04:29 AM
Beta 18 uses the new rake calculation based on the hands timestamp.
If you import a hand which was played after the 1st of october the new rake calculation is made, the old method is used when importing older hands.

B-Money
10-07-2010, 06:22 PM
Some issues here. We thought it was working but apparently it's not. Good news is we're adding a way for you to compare the two methods. Build is building now I just need wait for it to finish and do some testing to make sure it's working. :-)

OscarPL
10-08-2010, 05:00 AM
hi (sorry my english) i have the release 1.11.05 b18, i create new database and reimport all hands of ftp, and it says the SAME rake, after and before 1oct, why not calculate good?

netsrak
10-08-2010, 06:26 AM
Did you read B-Moneys post?
Unfortunately its not working in Beta 18 and the bug is not fixed yet.

guitarizt
10-08-2010, 08:05 PM
Some issues here. We thought it was working but apparently it's not. Good news is we're adding a way for you to compare the two methods. Build is building now I just need wait for it to finish and do some testing to make sure it's working. :-)

Cool thanks. I'm eying it based on what I would have normally made before and based on my rakeback numbers I think I'm getting about 16% rb if it was still calculated the old way.

SoulCrusher30
10-10-2010, 02:20 PM
Quitarizt........

I got the same figures (16% RakeBack) playing 6max with stats of about 21/16. Then when figuring in the Black Card rewards (9% return) I figured I am now getting around 25% rake back............

Disappointing to say the least!

Kane
10-17-2010, 02:13 AM
any new news on this?

GeleHaas
10-26-2010, 09:50 AM
Some issues here. We thought it was working but apparently it's not. Good news is we're adding a way for you to compare the two methods. Build is building now I just need wait for it to finish and do some testing to make sure it's working. :-)

And did it work ? I'm still waiting for the update, to fix this month with the rakeback stats by purging and re-importing all hands for octobor. Figured it would be done by now... :eek:

Patvs
10-31-2010, 09:16 PM
Comparing isn't added yet, but if you reimport your hands into 1.11.05 (latest update) it will correctly use the new method