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TJD
07-09-2008, 10:28 AM
I am not sure about this!

It is defined as the ratio of button steals to EP raises.

A player who is tight in EP but who steals a lot will have a very high ratio here.

Your stats showed that a high ratio was less profitable, yet surely a high ratio "should" indicate a high awareness of position. The only way to reduce this ratio is by decreasing the "profitable" steals and/or playing more hands in EP.

Could you or anyone else explain why this should be good?:)

You said that steals should increase as we approach the BB. However, in the SB, while we are more likely to win preflop, IF we are called/3-bet we are more likly to be OOP postflop.

I make more OTB than in SB with steals and more in CO than in SB. Is this usual for everyone?

Do you have any BB/100 ranges for steal% from the 3 steal seats separately or is there a sample size issue?

Trevor

morny
07-09-2008, 04:39 PM
I am not sure about this!

It is defined as the ratio of button steals to EP raises.

A player who is tight in EP but who steals a lot will have a very high ratio here.

Your stats showed that a high ratio was less profitable, yet surely a high ratio "should" indicate a high awareness of position. The only way to reduce this ratio is by decreasing the "profitable" steals and/or playing more hands in EP.

Could you or anyone else explain why this should be good?:)


The final stat may be misleading here since it just uses 3.14+, that would include alot of maniacs/loose players but i would image that the people in the 3.14-3.75 range would still be pretty profitable and the people above that would be diluting the overall bb/100.

A high rate will be profitable but there is a limit, if you just fold everything bar the nuts in EP and raise 75% of your hands from late positon youll have a very high ratio but obviously if your playing 75% of hands then your playing too loose and your win rate will be diluted.

What you say about reducing the ratio is correct but only for people who are playing too many hands from late position or too little hands from EP so when they start returning to a more normal level i.e late position stealing of 30% or so and are raising a reasonable range from UTG so theyre not playing marginal hands OOP and instead playing strong hands from that position theyre ratio would be around 2-3.5

Its like you saying that since im making 20bb/100 from the button and -3bb/100 from UTG that youll play tighter from UTG and play twice as many from the button, in theory that might sound good but your EP range becomes more transparent and you need to increase junk hands to steal with which will dilute your late position bb/100 and overall youll probably lose more.


You said that steals should increase as we approach the BB. However, in the SB, while we are more likely to win preflop, IF we are called/3-bet we are more likly to be OOP postflop.

I make more OTB than in SB with steals and more in CO than in SB. Is this usual for everyone?


The more you play in position (being last to act on each street postflop) the more you will win playing No Limit poker.

This is the key and roy just meant that as you move closer to the blinds you are playing more hands in positon. I presume he was referring to the CO and button mostly but there are also occassions where the SB will have positon too.


Do you have any BB/100 ranges for steal% from the 3 steal seats separately or is there a sample size issue?

Trevor

Maybe Roy can run them through but hes very busy at the moment. My stats over the last 30k hands are:
Steal pct: 28
Steal CO: 27.7
Steal Button: 36.8
Steal SB: 14.6

If youve any more questions let me know

Rvg72
07-09-2008, 04:44 PM
I am not sure about this!

It is defined as the ratio of button steals to EP raises.

A player who is tight in EP but who steals a lot will have a very high ratio here.

Your stats showed that a high ratio was less profitable, yet surely a high ratio "should" indicate a high awareness of position. The only way to reduce this ratio is by decreasing the "profitable" steals and/or playing more hands in EP.

Could you or anyone else explain why this should be good?:)

You said that steals should increase as we approach the BB. However, in the SB, while we are more likely to win preflop, IF we are called/3-bet we are more likly to be OOP postflop.

I make more OTB than in SB with steals and more in CO than in SB. Is this usual for everyone?

Do you have any BB/100 ranges for steal% from the 3 steal seats separately or is there a sample size issue?

Trevor

You have to remember that with most stats, even ones where high numbers are normally associated with good play, if you go too extreme then it can be exploited quite easily. So in that 5th grouping for the ratio, you are either not playing enough hands from early position thereby narrowing your EP/MP range too much or you are opening too many hands on the Button making any good player in the blinds revert to auto 3-bet mode. If you are in that group then either try playing a few more hands from EP, steal a little bit less from the BTN or do a bit of both. That all being said, some people could be at their best when they are in that 5th block in fact many top players probably are but for most people, trying to stay in the top returning stat groups is probably ideal.

Regarding stealing, and again this is generalizing, but you should be stealing a bit more from the SB than the BTN. You can look at your steal success rates in the "By Position" report and then do some math but you'll probably find that you make more than enough extra preflop to compensate for being at a disadvantage postflop.

Roy