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great_ape
06-30-2010, 10:37 AM
Hi ,

I represent a large pokercommunity. a lot of our members are using HEM and are playing on a skin, part of the microgaming network

recently we are seeing a lot of differences between the report we get as a affillate from microgaming and the rake reporting in HEM

the skin uses weighted contributed rake as does the rest of microgaming, but somehow HEM is calculating this wrongly..

there is usually a ten % difference between hem rake (higher) vs microgamings own stats..

im not sure where the difference is coming from n but HEM remains very obscure about this.. I would like to see the actual formula used by hem to calculate the rake.. or have someone explain me how I can make a custom stat that would calculate weighted contributed rake correctly..

a sample hand:

prima Network $1000.00 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

Erobreren (CO): $554.10
icallednotit (BTN): $1244.45
RiblStripe (SB): $275.00
Hero (BB): $1084.00
superk_P9522 (UTG): $439.00
Mozgolom (MP): $1013.50

Pre Flop: ($15.00) Hero is BB with K A
3 folds, icallednotit raises to $150, 1 fold, Hero raises to $300, icallednotit raises to $1244.45, Hero calls $784 all in

Flop: ($2173.00) T Q A (2 players - 1 is all in)

Turn: ($2173.00) 6 (2 players - 1 is all in)

River: ($2173.00) A (2 players - 1 is all in)

Final Pot: $2173.00
icallednotit mucks 9 Q
Hero shows K A
Hero wins $2150.00
icallednotit wins $10.00
(Rake: $13.00)


for this hand HEM shows 1.36 € rake ( these are euro tables), while in fact in you calculate manually it should give 1.49 € rake... a difference of over ten percent..

help would be very much appreciated as all our members think the microgamin report is wrong.. while I belive the HEM calculation is off

morny
06-30-2010, 11:23 AM
Heres how we calculate weight contributed rake:
weighted divides the rake based on how much each person contributed towards the pot. So if player X put in 40% of the pot then he gets 40% of the rake

I presume the figures you mention are rakeback figures but you didnt mention what %

Ill be happy to look into this but i will need the original hand history because i cant import a converted hand into HM to test on my end.

Also if your playing in Euros are you using the Euro Rake stat?

You can email the hand to support@holdemmanager.com if you want to keep it private

great_ape
06-30-2010, 12:12 PM
hi thanks for the reply.. this is a hh one of our users posted , dont have the original.. I have the original out of my database , same skin :

( on a side note, these are Euro tables yet in the HH it says usd ?? )


***** Hand History for Game 1111111111 ***** (Prima)
$50.00 USD PL Omaha - Sunday, June 06, 10:26:20 ET 2010
Table Montano 3 (Real Money)
Seat 6 is the button
Seat 1: Hero ( $52.84 USD )
Seat 2: Player2 ( $61.35 USD )
Seat 3: Player3 ( $52.01 USD )
Seat 4: Player4 ( $164.85 USD )
Seat 5: Player5 ( $58.49 USD )
Seat 6: Player6 ( $21.69 USD )
Hero posts small blind [$0.25 USD].
Player2 posts big blind [$0.50 USD].
Dealt to Hero [ Tc Kc Qc Jh ]
Player3 raises [$1.75 USD]
Player4 calls [$1.75 USD]
Player6 folds
Hero raises [$7.25 USD]
Player2 folds
Player3 raises [$23.00 USD]
Player4 folds
Hero raises [$45.09 USD]
Player3 calls [$27.26 USD]
** Dealing Flop ** [ Js, 3d, 9s ]
** Dealing Turn ** [ Ad ]
** Dealing River ** [ 3c ]
Hero shows [Tc, Kc Qc Jh ]
Player3 shows [3s, As 8d Ah ]
Player3 wins $103.27 USD from main pot
Hero wins $0.58 USD from main pot

rake in this hand is 2.42 $ ( which actually is euro's),

according to hem I should have gotten 1.73 $ rake on this hand..or 1.44 € rake ( these are euro tables )

which doenst make sense .. total pot = 106.27 euro I put 52.85 in it (49 %) so my rake part should be 49% out of 2.42€ or 1.21 € rake.. not 1.44

any idea why this is happening?

morny
06-30-2010, 03:01 PM
Hi

1) Id need to send the gamehistory.dat file to the developers (its database format so i cant view it with notepad etc) to see why its being recorded as $ and not € but possibly you imported it via an older version which didnt have currency support? I can only tell the problem by seeing the raw hand history information, feel free to email that to me support@holdemmanager.com and ill look into it


2) What formula do you use for working on the rake that Prima take?

3) When i import this hand i added the 3 rake stats for $,€ and £ it showed

$1.44
€1.06
£0.93

See my attached screenshot. Are you sure your looking at the correct numbers? There will be some difference naturally depending on what currency conversion you use for €, i use 0.7383 so either switch to that or let me know your rate so were on the same page when converting.

great_ape
06-30-2010, 03:30 PM
hi


but how can it be 1.44 when the total rake is 2.42?? thats more then 50% which with contributed hands cannot be the case ?

morny
06-30-2010, 05:21 PM
Yes i agree it should be 49% of the total rake but we need to work out how you get $2.42, how do Prima calculate the total pot rake, is it by % up to a capped amount of something like that? Once we know that i can go to the developers to check into this

great_ape
06-30-2010, 06:10 PM
hi ithink you have several microgaming / prima users already on here so there should be no difference with those calculations

i have sent you per email a gamehistory.dat file so this should help

the rake calculation is detailed on microgaming.com under rake

its weighted contributed rake capped to 3 usd or eur . for blinds higher then o.o5 /0.1 they take 5% per 20 cents in rake with more then 3 players

more info :

Microgaming - Together We Are The Game (http://www.microgaming.com/pnrake.aspx?pid=1)

hope this helps further

morny
07-02-2010, 12:50 AM
Ok so heres my take it on it.

Effective stacks are 52.01 since thats all he has

Pot is 52.01 + 52.01 + players4 1.75 raise + players2 50c = 106.27 total Pot

52.01 which is our contribution is 48.94%

Pot is $106.27 * 5% = $5.31 so thats capped to $3

$3 * 48.94% = $1.47

So there is a difference of $0.03 or 2.8% by my calculations but maybe my calcs are off so ill ask the developers and see what the difference is caused by

great_ape
07-02-2010, 03:12 AM
hi

thanks for the calculation.. looks like something is off

id be interested to hear more news from the developpers. + more info on the gamehistory.dat file i submitted earlier

thanks

Mike chops
07-02-2010, 12:37 PM
Under the contributed rake method, I only credit you for contributions to the pot that are raked. In this case the rake was capped when the pot reached $60. The contributions at that point were $28.875, $28.875, $1.75 and $0.50 and the rake is allocated accordingly.

waytogo
11-03-2010, 09:40 AM
Rake is still way wrong, differing with over 20% for me. Any fixes on the way?

Patvs
11-03-2010, 11:23 PM
Playing on which skin?
Already using 1.11.05a?

waytogo
11-09-2010, 09:17 AM
Playing on which skin?
Already using 1.11.05a?

Purple Lounge. And have newest update.

Tbird
11-14-2010, 08:23 PM
There is a big difference on the rake that is calculated in HEM and the actual rake. Does HEM use weighted contributed rake calculation method?

fabio
11-16-2010, 04:38 AM
Hi,

we'll look into it but I can't give you guys a timeframe, sorry.

sooraw
09-02-2011, 08:01 AM
Have you fixed this because my stats on Purple Lounge is differing almost 30% from HEM numbers.
Im not sure if its my affiliate screwing me over or if HEM is showing wrong rake??

Patvs
09-02-2011, 09:49 AM
The rake should be correct.
Did you reimport your hands into a new 1.12 database?

Are you playing a special type of tables?

sooraw
09-02-2011, 09:12 PM
Yup i have the latest 1.12
The hands are from 6 max omaha..
So the rake is correct for omaha aswell?

Sarek
09-03-2011, 05:01 AM
Rake system is the same for NLH and Omaha? If yes, calculations are the same and should be correct.