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Tackleberry
09-01-2012, 05:19 AM
I tried so hard, I tried for three times now - to get used to HM2 and "ignore" all the bugs, the horrible GUI and the mega-slow appearance - but it doesnīt work, Iīm tired and just sick of it. I play professionally and I need professional tools. HM2 is not a professional tool, itīs a toy - and itīs not even a good toy.

So, my (serious!) question is basically - if I switch back to HM1 - how long will it be supported? Is there a real and longer-lasting alternative to HM2 (besides quitting HEM completely)?

Patvs
09-01-2012, 09:44 PM
'Horrible' HM2 GUI is not going to be changed, but the upcoming hybrid build (with a different HM2 engine will significantly improve performance)

Latest 'regular' build (with the old engine) is: http://www.holdemmanager.com/Downloads/7283_Hm2AutoUpdate.exe

If you switch back to HM1, I have no eta when until it will be supported. Currently HM1 is already limited it only gets 'basic' updates every week: fixing bugs to fix: HUD issues / importing hands issues. It will get this type of support at least till the end of the year. (I have no eta, but it will be probably be supported longer than that)
Though no new features are added to HM1

Latest HM1 update is: http://www.holdemmanager.com/Downloads/HmUpdate_Release_1.12.11_26aug2012.exe

I'm confident by that time.... with the hybrid build... bug fixes, EV fixes, etc. HM2 will have won you over.
HM2 has already won over many players who stopped using HM1, but it's very specific on what you play (gametype / site) and what you actually use HoldemManager for. HM1 still is faster and 'easier' to use in some parts. (parts that will need some serious bug fixes or even a make-over in HM2)

Alternative...: check out the PT3 vs PT4 discussion on 2+2 or on their forums. It seems they have the same issue, the re-design of the program is just so different, there still is a group of players prefering the old version. (I used to compare it to Micrososft Office 2003 vs Office 2007 / 2010. I never truly got used to the Office 2007/2010 'ribbon' interface)

Tackleberry
09-02-2012, 06:21 AM
First of all, thanks for the patient and informative answer. Let me make some things clear though:

It seems they have the same issue, the re-design of the program is just so different, there still is a group of players prefering the old version. (I used to compare it to Micrososft Office 2003 vs Office 2007 / 2010. I never truly got used to the Office 2007/2010 'ribbon' interface)
Donīt get me wrong, Iīm a former IT-professional / software developer myself so I know there are always some people who get sticky to what they know and refrain from working into new stuff. I am NOT one of those guys. I was amongst the first tro try the new HM2 BETA, I took almost three complete days to get to know any single bit of Notecaddy and so on and so forth ...

And itīs not even the GUI that gives me the rest, itīs actually the performance. I bought a brand-new PC, 8 core CPU, 16 GB RAM, one of the fastest SSD Hard Drives available. A rocket. But HM2 turns it into a snake.

Regarding "what you actually use HoldemManager for", thatīs easy. HM is not a PC-game (not for me), itīs a tool. It has to do itīs job and it doesnīt have to look beautiful while doing that. Itīs like a hammer. It doesnīt matter what it looks like, but it has to drive a nail into the wall - without breaking into pieces, without being shaped in a way that itīs almost impossible to hit the nail. So, when playing, I need a fast-working HUD, I need fast-appearing popups, I need the chance to immediately (!) take notes for players, I need the possibility to mark hands with no effort (for later review). When analyzing, I need easy-to-define filters, I need very fast (!) execution of queries and - very important - I need correct and reliable stats.

What HM2 actually gives me is an instable HUD (although it got lot better), the popups are taking 2 seconds before appearing (I activated pop when clicked), when clicking on the note icon it almost takes 3-4 seconds (!!!) until the note window appears, when typing the note, the graphic gets completely mixed up and the note window gets transparent and shows the background (it still takes the note but I canīt see what Iīm typing), hands that I mark for later review get randomly marked or not (!) and after the game, when I analyze my game it takes way too long until HM completes the queries (besides that there still are lots of bugs in the query definitions, but seriously, I stopped making bug reports, because Iīm no beta-tester, I donīt have time for that - so I just stop using that specific buggy query definition - which is annoying enough - as well as it reduces my trust in the other queries where the mistakes arenīt that obvious).

Summarized - and I still mean that in the most open-minded manner! - after all I experienced, a new version with a new "hybrid engine" does not really make me happy as well ... a "hybrid engine" sounds like a temporary half-hearted bug-fix ... thatīs not good. I think you are aware of what important role HM plays in a poker professionalīs environment ... but the actual software by far does not mirror that awareness.

And finally - because you mentioned that - I tried PokerTracker. I once was a big fan of PT1 ... until I switched to HM and told everybody that PT is rubbish and HM is it. So I canīt judge the difference between PT4 and PT3 - but it doesnīt really matter. I donīt say "Meh, HM1 was better than HM2". That doesnīt matter at all. What matters is that HM2 is bad - regardless if HM1 was better or worse. And after having tried PT4 yesterday - I can just say - it works like I expected. Itīs very fast - it takes roughly 5 secs. to start - HM2 needs roughtly 30 seconds!!! - and the queries are performed in an outstanding speed (compared to HM2).

udbrky
09-02-2012, 06:53 PM
I'm not seeing the delayed popup at all. Try this:

- You need to assign the HUD in site options in HUD Options.

- Please export your HUD's in HUD Options.

See this screenshot for exporting HUD's:

http://www.udbrky.com/hmsupport/exporthuds.PNG

- Then delete the prefs file in the config folder in*
7: C:\Users\{username}\AppData\Roaming\HoldemManager\

XP: C:\Documents and Settings\User_name\Application Data\HoldemManager

- Please reinstall Microsoft .NET Framework -
http://hm2faq.holdemmanager.com/questions/1881/Holdem+Manager+.NET+Cleanup+Instructions

- Import your HUD's again.

- Set your seating preferences to match the site's seating preferences.

If there is none:
set it to "-" for the right HUD and site for each game type/# of players.
Open one table, make sure positions line up.
Click settings on the summary HUD on the table, find the HUD name, click Use for all

* You will need to show hidden and system files. See this tutorial for showing system and hidden files:

http://hm2faq.holdemmanager.com/questions/832/How+are+Hidden+Files+Viewed+in+Windows%3F+

See this screenshot for location in win 7 for the prefs files:

http://www.udbrky.com/hmsupport/prefs.PNG



As far as load speed - HM1 doesn't load hands into memory like HM2 does. This speeds up report speed. Any time that I've done tests in comparing HM1 and HM2, with the same database size - 1million + hands, I get HM2 reports a lot faster. The cash graph - and soon to be tournaments graph - is way improved speedwise, and lookswise in version 7280+.

You tried the beta/hybrid version? Is that what you were referencing? The hybrid refers to the fact that it uses a different grid system, and is in no way a "half-hearted fix".

Please open HM2, run each report, email the log file with a link to this thread and let us know how many hands are in your database - to support@holdemmanager.com and I'll look at the times and see what I can see.

If you continue to have problems, please reproduce the problem, describe exactly what you were doing, and attach your log.txt file -

http://hm2faq.holdemmanager.com/questions/1921/How+Do+I+Send+a+Log+File+to+Holdem+Manager+Support %3F

Patvs
09-02-2012, 07:52 PM
when typing the note, the graphic gets completely mixed up and the note window gets transparent and shows the background (it still takes the note but I canīt see what Iīm typing)






This should be fixed when you turn on the Windows Aero interface. Read: http://forums.holdemmanager.com/bug-reports/325202-hud-problem-popup-stats-hard-tosee.html

morny
09-09-2012, 08:04 AM
Hi,

I'm the support manager and the guys passed on this thread to me. I think you have a couple of very valid points but some are concerning me because i can gladly show you a TV session on a player with 1.6 million hands and show you the difference between HM2 and HM1 in returning the speed, HM2 is so much faster. Imports are also many times faster, i have seen 600h/s + on high spec machines so what we do is harness the power of your PC.

The reason it is slow on startup as Chris points out is we now load the hands into memory. This is actually what allows us to load the reports many times faster because its much faster to access information in memory than it is to load it from the hard drive. The downside to that is we have to load the hands into memory before we can begin to use HM so a few seconds delay on initial start will save you lots of time when running reports, on a bigger database it could save you minutes on a single query.

What concerns me about your post is the issues with delayed popups and slower report speeds is not typical so i would like to work with you to find out why your having these issues and others aren't. I'm not trying to dismiss your point about there been other bugs which you havent mentioned but it sounds like all your issues are related and solving 1 may well solve them all. To me it sounds like something is slowing down PostgreSQL and HM2 communicating because all these problems are related to the retrieval of information, reports, popups although the notes speed might be a different issue.

if you email me on pmorny@holdemmanager.net i would be happy to work with you to solve these issues, also you can email those log files directly to me and also try the solutions the guys mentioned above to see if they have any improvement

Tackleberry
09-09-2012, 11:55 AM
You got an e-mail.