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PunIntended
10-08-2008, 10:32 PM
Basically,

Is the 'running good/bad' determined by how your EV graph line is relative to your 'winnings' line?

Further, if you do 'EV adjustment' in the regular reports, is this the amount you should be winning, given that you run average luck-wise?

What can I infer from a graph like this?

http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/7133/wowwowowow2zs6.jpg

morny
10-09-2008, 11:50 AM
There is a problem with the All in EV grpah calculation at the moment but if it wasnt calculating incorrectly this would show that when you got all in before the turn you won $8k more than you would have if you had average luck

To define average luck, if you have QQ vs AA youll win 1 out of 5 times with average luck. So if you win 2 out of 5 your better than average luck and 0 out of 5 would be worse than average luck.

EV Diff is very similar and it is calculating correctly. If you have average luck when all in your EV DIFF will be $0, if you win $100 more than you would with average luck your EV difference will be -$100 and if you lost $200 more than you would with average luck youd have +$200 so a positive result will be shown as negative and vice versa

PunIntended
10-09-2008, 12:08 PM
Morny,

Thank you for the reply. I'm just confused as to how the EV line in HEM works compared to 'EV Software' used in conjunction with PT2.

Reason being, if I import these hands into PT2 and EV-Software, the All-In luck tab of the analysis shows me running horribly below expectation. From what else I read on the forums, this line seems to show the opposite, so I'm unsure of what to believe.

I have a very hard time believing I'm running roughly 9k ahead in 'all in' luck considering a 6k downswing (15-16k net difference) while having a very high non-showdown winrate to combine with(W$SF of 46). I mean, I'm no FGators (2+2 poster who was horrible in won w/o showdown). Note -- these hands are over 2/4 and 1/2 -- not higher stakes.

Is there any plan for HEM to incorporate a strict all-in luck graph similar to EV-Software?

For what it's worth, HEM completely owns PT's soul in everything other than this -- mostly because I just don't buy what I'm reading concerning this sample when I actually look at the hands.

However, I may just be misunderstanding what this line means. When I adjust my winrate in the 'reports' section to 'EV Adjusted', my bb/100 goes from a negative winrate to a EV Adjusted high positive one. This seems to imply I'm running bad to common sense, but maybe I just don't understand?

morny
10-09-2008, 12:17 PM
You see theres no point in trying to judge anything when the line is not calculating properly. I think when it does calculate correctly it would be a good representation, i have no idea how PT calculate their EV so i cant comment on whether we would do it that way or not.

There is weaknesses in the way it calculates that were aware of in that if you get 80% of the money in on the flop and 20% in on the turn it calculates it based on the turn equity only but we will also be introducing a better stats that takes into account the Equity compared to % of the stack that was all in on all streets which will be a better representation.

Anyway basically theres no point looking at an incorrect stat and trying to make assesments, lets wait until we get it fixed and then look at graphs, my assesment was based on the fact the grpah was correct in my post above ONLY to explain how it works when its correct but im not saying your running above expectation but its certainly possibly to have a negative graph like yours and still be running hot in all in pots but obviously not in your case.

PunIntended
10-09-2008, 01:18 PM
Ah, gotcha.

Yeah, didn't mean to criticize the software at all -- honestly think it's great, and I'm probably going to buy it after the trial is over.

I am well aware you can be running hot and still losing large amounts -- just knew that in this particular case, this..simply could not the case. In terms of analyzing just all in preflop situations

So just so I understand correctly for the future -- if my All-In EV line is NEGATIVE, I am running bad, and if it is POSITIVE I am running good. Correct? And this line has absolutely NOTHING to do with the 'winnings' line, as well?

One other thing -- How does the bb/100 work with 'EV Adjusted'?

For example, it says my winrate over a sample is 4.57/100, but when I adjust for EV, it says it is 7.09/100.

morny
10-09-2008, 02:04 PM
Yeah no problem,

The adjusted EV line is actually the same as the all in EV graph at the moment, compare them and youll see. There was obviously just a mixup and well get it all sorted asap.

However i am just noticing something that if you invert your EV Diff stat i.e if the stat says -$300 then your running $300 better than average luck and if its +$500 then your running -$500 below expectation. Youll need to do this through the hands tab and select all hands and look at the EV diff total at the bottom however this stat isnt in the graph

So sorry for all the confusion and we hope to get this sorted soon

PunIntended
10-09-2008, 02:22 PM
I think one or both of us are confused by what I'm asking.

Okay, so I did what you said over this sample, and looked at 'all hands' and summed up my 'EV Difference'. The result is a POSITIVE $14k-ish.

This means I'm running 14k below expectation, correct? Because this doesn't seem to be supported by what you said earlier...that the initial graph shows that I'm running good.

Thanks again for all the attention and helping me understand this.

morny
10-10-2008, 03:05 PM
I have to re-clarify this but it appears that the EV line appears to be correct after all and it was just not as we explained it. It appears that the EV line shows your total winnings and then adjusts it based on on whether youve had average luck or not. So if your running $500 above expectation and your winnings is $2k then the all in EV line will be $1,500 because if you had average luck then you'd have won $1.5k so you can in fact compare the winnings line and the all in EV line to see if your running hot or not.

In your case for that graph if you had average luck you would be up almost $9k so your running quite terribly almost 14k below expectation in all in pots. Dont know if that will make you feel better or worse:D

Anyway really sorry for all this confusion, im almost certain thats how it is and i double check with Roy and let you know if its not the case but we got mixed up and thought it should show the EV difference so in your case your 14k below expectation we thought the stat should show -14k on the graph for the All in EV line to show this but it actually shows how much you would have won if you had average luck which in your case is $14 more than your actual winnings of -$5k