Does HM Engineering Care About AP HUD?

[LHEM100]

I have been reporting problems that make using the HUD on AP when the games are less than full almost impossible for over three months now and this never seems to get fixed.

Basically any 6 or 9 handed LHE game on AP that starts full and looses players will cause the hole cards and other HUD stats to jump to wrong locations or not show up at all. This is a serious problem with the HUD for those that play at less than full tables and should have been fixed long ago.

At this point I am wondering whether it makes sense to switch over to PT. Does anyone know if PT has problems with short handed tables using the HUD?

[morny]

Hi,

Are you sure its not a problem with the settings, has a support staff confirmed the bug at any stage?

If your unsure i can login and do a TV session and follow up the bug for you
i tried to confirm it but apparently since the merge my username is gone and i have to email support and wait for them to activate my account

support@holdemmanager.net

[B-Money]

Played 4 tables of Limit Holdem .02/.04 for about an hour today on AP to try and reproduce this problem. 300 hands. No problem spotted. When people sat out their stats removed or went to null for a hand, but that's normal since they sat out of a hand.

Not once did I see HUD stats randomly switch around. If that is a big problem for you I strongly suggest working with support on your preferred seating options.

Also, if this problem was widespread I think we'd hear about it more. If you can do anything to help us reproduce this problem please let us know. If we can reproduce it, we can fix it.

In the above testing situation today I played 2 FR and 2 6-MAX tables. One of each I made sure I was the person that made it full. In the other 2 tables I made sure me joining would not make it full. Obviously throughout the hour of testing multiple people sat out, left the table and joined the tables.

Let us know if you have any more information about the problem. If others have this issue, please join in this conversation and we'll get to the bottom of it. HUD stats moving around really sounds like a preferred seating option that is not setup correctly inside of Holdem Manager or inside of Absolute.

GL,
-B

[LHEM100]

Thanks for the replies. Just having someone actually trying to help means a lot, as I have been super frustrated over this. I will reproduce either today or tomorrow and post the screen shots and hand histories and exactly what happened to reproduce.

[netsrak]

If i remember right i was the one who originally talked to you. I'm pretty sure i generated a bug report about this problem but i can't find it anymore. Seems it got lost in our system. Sorry about that.

[LHEM100]

Ok, I made sure and downloaded the lastest HEM before attempting to reproduce. For awhile everything seemed pretty good. But then the problem did show up again.

What happened was I was playing 3 handed at a 6 Max LHE table on AP. Then the game broke, and I stayed there waiting. Another player sat down. Once he started playing me HU, the HUD went crazy and every hand was messed up from that point on. Here is the screen shot for one hand:

I am sitting at the bottom seat. I have AP set up to always put me at the bottom. The Villan is to my left two seats.

In this hand, which I will copy the HH for below, went to show down. I had Q9 and he had J2. Notice how it puts my hole cards in his seat, and it puts his cards in an empty seat! This is pretty much the same behavior I have been seeing for months now. It doesn't just happen for HU though, it happens three and four handed as well.

Here is the hand history for that hand:

Stage #2003xxxxxx: Holdem Normal $10/$20 - 2010-04-16 07:24:17 (ET)
Table: xxxx xx (Real Money) Seat #4 is the dealer
Seat 4 - Villan ($693 in chips)
Seat 2 - Hero ($772.50 in chips)
Villan - Posts small blind $5
Hero - Posts big blind $10
*** POCKET CARDS ***
Dealt to Hero [Qd 9c]
Villan - Raises $15 to $20
Hero - Calls $10
*** FLOP *** [4s 3h 10c]
Hero - Checks
Villan - Checks
*** TURN *** [4s 3h 10c] [Ad]
Hero - Checks
Villan - Checks
*** RIVER *** [4s 3h 10c Ad] [4h]
Hero - Checks
Villan - Checks
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Hero - Shows [Qd 9c] (One pair, fours)
Villan - Mucks
Hero Collects $39 from main pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total Pot($40) | Rake ($1)
Board [4s 3h 10c Ad 4h]
Seat 2: Hero (big blind) won Total ($39) HI:($39) with One pair, fours(queen kicker) [Qd 9c - B:4s,B:4h,B:Ad,P:Qd,B:10c]
Seat 4: Villan (dealer) (small blind) HI: [Mucked] [2d Jh]

[morny]

Weve managed to reproduce this and send it the developers to fix, sorry about the delay

[LHEM100]

I am so glad you were able to reproduce! Thanks! I have other screen shots showing the problem with 4 players at a 6 handed table and also at 9 handed table. Let me know if you would like the additional screen shots.

[netsrak]

Please mail the screenshots with a link to this thread to mike@holdemmanager.net

[LHEM100]

Please mail the screenshots with a link to this thread to mike@holdemmanager.net

Mike, you asked me to email additional screen shots showing the problem. Here is the screen shots you requested:

The picture is at a 4 handed table. I know that the support for 4 handed is still buggy, but wanted to show the problem there as well since you already have screen shots for the 6 handed table. As you can see it puts the player on the left cards in an empty seat.

This actually points out another bug/incomplete feature:

There is no way to specifiy a HUD layout that applies only to 6 handed tables! Even though the HU "supports" 4 handed by clicking the checkbox, in the HUD settings, there is no way to specify using that config only for 4 handed since there are only checkboxes for HU, 6, and 9 handed tables. They need to add a check box for 4 handed support as well.

[Mike chops]

Thanks for the email. Did you guys try 1.10.06 yet?

[LHEM100]

Thanks for the email. Did you guys try 1.10.06 yet?

Wasn't aware of the new version. HEM needs an auto update system or at least an email notification for new versions.

[morny]

Auto Update is coming soon

[LHEM100]

Ok, I tried it with 10.06 just now. It took awhile but I was able to reproduce the problem. Its still there!!!

I was playing at a 6 max LHE table on AP. We were three handed. Then one player quit and we got HU. The HUD went wacky again and exhibited two problems:

1) Hole cards in the wrong seat, as previously reported for the past four months and
2) A new issue I just noticed: it has the HUD Panel for player LNC in two different locations!

I managed to capture a screen shot showing both issues and am attaching it here. This problem never corrected itself, it stayed that way the whole time we played heads up.

[LHEM100]

Quick note, in the first picture the KJ is supposed to be in the bottom seat and the T8 in the left seat.

In the second shot, the Qc9c is supposed to be in the bottom seat and the 3c4c is supposed to be in the left seat.

[netsrak]

You should mail Mike directly. I think thats the fastest way to solve it.

[Mike chops]

The problem is deciding how many seats are at a table. Most sites either have 6-max or headsup either in the window title or the hand history. Absolute has neither so we have to guess based on the seat numbers of the players.

If you find a 9 handed table with players only in seats 1-6, you will still get this problem also for 2 handed games where the players are in seats 4 and 6.

[LHEM100]

The problem is deciding how many seats are at a table. Most sites either have 6-max or headsup either in the window title or the hand history. Absolute has neither so we have to guess based on the seat numbers of the players.

If you find a 9 handed table with players only in seats 1-6, you will still get this problem also for 2 handed games where the players are in seats 4 and 6.

So it sounds like you found the problem. It wasn't clear from this description whether you had found a way to fix it.

Any idea how PokerTracker handles it since their HUD works fine for AP?

[LHEM100]

Ok, I tried it with 10.06 just now. It took awhile but I was able to reproduce the problem. Its still there!!!

I was playing at a 6 max LHE table on AP. We were three handed. Then one player quit and we got HU. The HUD went wacky again and exhibited two problems:

1) Hole cards in the wrong seat, as previously reported for the past four months and
2) A new issue I just noticed: it has the HUD Panel for player LNC in two different locations!

I managed to capture a screen shot showing both issues and am attaching it here. This problem never corrected itself, it stayed that way the whole time we played heads up.

The other thing that is interesting about the screen shot is that it shows a HUD panel for player LNC in both locations. I have my HUD set to filter data by number of players, with 2 handed stats different than 3 handed, 4 handed different, and 5 and 6 together. It looks like it is displaying the 3 handed and 2 handed at the same time on the table there.

[LHEM100]

The problem is deciding how many seats are at a table. Most sites either have 6-max or headsup either in the window title or the hand history. Absolute has neither so we have to guess based on the seat numbers of the players.

If you find a 9 handed table with players only in seats 1-6, you will still get this problem also for 2 handed games where the players are in seats 4 and 6.

I've been thinking about this a lot. It seems like there are two approaches that could yield decent results, certainly better results than the current situation:

1) Allow the user to specify what type the table is (2, 4, 6, or 9) by clicking (or right clicking) on some user interface element in the HUD that would bring up a popup with the various player options in it. Then we could just set the number of players for each table as we open them. Or optionally have a way to set this using table manager.

2) if you are doing auto detection and the player has more than 6 people at it, then you know its a 9 handed table and should always display the HUD at that table until its closed using the 9 handed template, even if later in the session its HU or 4 handed.

[Mike chops]

Which version do you have. I did some work on this in the 1.11 build. Once a hand history shows someone sat in seats 6-9, that table should stay 9 max. It is difficult to test. I tried for about an hour or so and could't find a table where seats 6-9 became empty.

[Veteran68]

It still happens on UB with 1.11. I was playing a MTT last night and as long as we had 5 players at the table, the HUD remained positioned correctly. However once at the final table and we dropped to the last 3 or 4 (don't recall exactly, but I believe it was 4), the HUD got scrambled and jumped all over the place. I played out the tourney without using the HUD at that point as it wasn't critical anyway, but it definitely demonstrated the same problem. This does not occur on FT and PS when full tables drop to 2-players, and it's not like UB removes seats from the table or repositions the players, so I'm not sure why HEM can't leave the HUD stats alone?

As far as which seats were occupied when the scramble happened, if memory services it was seats 1, 5, 7, and 8 (counting clockwise from top-right of the dealer). I know for certain when we were 3-handed that I was in seat 5, another was in seat 7 (far left), and the other in seat 1.

[LHEM100]

I think a decent solution would be to just let us specify what the table is by clicking on a HUD element. Add a little Table Type Icon somewhere on the HUD that when clicked on brings up a popup with {9,6,4,2} in it and we can just specify directly which template the HUD should be using for this table. As long as the table is never closed, the HUD would then continue to use what was specified. It should default to whatever the current behavior is for selecting the HUD template, but once the user overrides the setting, then keep that setting until that table is closed. That seems like it would offer the best combination of preserving the current behavior as the default, and allowing users to correct the problem when it gets wacky.