PDA

View Full Version : Raise first



Seppelfricke
02-24-2010, 03:57 PM
Hi.

What is the "raise first" stat about? Does it mean if I bet on flop and get raised?

And what is normal or too high for 6 max and full ring games?

Greetz
from Berlin/Germany

Ajax
02-24-2010, 05:25 PM
Raise first is a preflop stat, not a flop stat.

Say it is a full-ring game, and it is folded to middle position and then a player opens with a raise. That is a raise-first.

This stat is also available by postion. Because of the way that it is defined, "BTN rase first," for example, will always have the same value as the stat "BTN steal."


And what is normal or too high for 6 max and full ring games?

I have already put some thought into the raise first stat myself, so I will give you my opinion on what is normal or too high. For full-ring, I think anything between 18% and 25% is in the normal range. Above 29% is getting to be very high. I am not sure about 6-max.

If I were to look at the stat again, I might decide that 18-25% is actually a little bit on the high side... but really I think that range is pretty good.

I am investigating the ranges for many different stats myself. My hope is that if I share what I have done, others will share their insights with me as well.

Seppelfricke
02-24-2010, 06:30 PM
Thanx Ajax for sharing your thoughts. I see I was totally wrong.

The stat I'm looking for is that situation I mentioned before: I bet first on flop, turn or river and get raised. Which one is it? And what threshold does it have?

Ajax
02-26-2010, 09:08 PM
IF you are referring to a c-bet getting raised, then there are three stats for this. So, if you make a continuation-bet and get raised, then the stats are:
- Raise flop CB
- Raise turn CB
- Raise river CB
all of these stats are under the "Continuation bet" group.

If you want stats for any type of bet (c-bet or non-c-bet) being raised, I do not think HEM has those stats yet. But if we get those stats in the future, then they would be
- Raise vs flop bet
- Raise vs turn bet
- Raise vs river bet
but as I said, we do not have those stats yet.

If the flop goes check-check, and then you bet on the turn and get raised, Raise turn CB would NOT be the stat that you want, because your turn bet is NOT a continuation-bet. This would be where you would want to have the stat Raise vs turn bet, but we do not have that stat (at least I do not think we have it).

As far as a threshold for the stat, I do not know what it would be. I would actually like to find a good threshold, or what I call "stat range information," for the stat Raise flop CB (and Raise turn CB too), but I have not yet found it. I think getting good information on these stats might be difficult. Also keep in mind that it is rare for a player to raise a turn c-bet, so the stat will take a very long time to normalize, IMHO. Furthermore, if your c-bet on the turn gets raised, you need to look at the texture of the board, consider your opponent's range, and remember that raises on the flop or turn, especially against c-bets, are usually indicators of a very strong hand (so seriously consider folding, and even calling against an aggressive player might be too much for the hand that you have).

If you find any information on the "threshold" values for Raise flop CB or Raise turn CB, let me know.