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saiza
09-23-2008, 05:50 AM
It says in the FAQ

"Call Open
Also know as cold call, this is when there is when your facing a raise and just call"

But i was surfing the web and i found this definition for Cold Call

"Cold Call
Calling (but not raising) when faced with more than one bet in a single action.
If one opponent bets, and another raises, and you call, you have cold called."




I found this when i was trying to find a preflop stat where a person just calls a raise, to see the % of hands they would play facing a raise. Call Open seemed this stat, but i became confused...

Al1
09-23-2008, 07:53 AM
It says in the FAQ

"Call Open
Also know as cold call, this is when there is when your facing a raise and just call"

But i was surfing the web and i found this definition for Cold Call

"Cold Call
Calling (but not raising) when faced with more than one bet in a single action.
If one opponent bets, and another raises, and you call, you have cold called."


I found this when i was trying to find a preflop stat where a person just calls a raise, to see the % of hands they would play facing a raise. Call Open seemed this stat, but i became confused...

No sure, but here his what I think:

cold call = call open

First, preflop, if someone raise and you just call, it's a cold call.
Post flop, if someone bet and just call, it's not a cold call, because you need a raise between the bettor and you.

Preflop, you need only one person who raise to have the "opportunity" to cold call, because blinds are the first "bet". Postflop, nothing is posted, thus you need a bet and a raise before you act, which means 2 persons.

Furthermore, if you are the bettor and an opponent raise, you don't cold call by calling the raise, you only cold call when you call "2 levels of aggression" in one step (blind+raise preflop, or bet+raise postflop).

But the call open stats in HM is only for preflop I believe but I am not sure.

fabio
09-23-2008, 07:54 AM
Call Open is the stat you are looking for :)

saiza
09-23-2008, 09:09 AM
Forgot about the Big Bling being considered a bet. That makes sense now.

Anyway, i needed to confirm if this stat was only for preflop action.

Thanks both

morny
09-23-2008, 09:50 AM
Yes it only refers to preflop play, we have a glossary of all stats here aswell: http://208.109.95.123/faq/afmviewtopic.aspx?topicid=15

Shloogy
09-24-2008, 02:19 PM
not making any sense at all
call open should be a player that act first by calling for instance:
everyone folds to villain who is mp1 and he calls first in

morny
09-24-2008, 05:41 PM
Call Open = Cold Call preflop as Fabio mentioned already and its explained in the FAQ, Not sure what you mean but it sounds like what your describing is a limp as in it folded around to someone and they just call instead of raise then that is a limp

Edit// Sorry i didnt notice the 1st post it appears my definition of what i thought was a cold call was wrong so thanks for that and ive updated the FAQ to ammend this.

Al1
09-26-2008, 02:23 PM
not making any sense at all
call open should be a player that act first by calling for instance:
everyone folds to villain who is mp1 and he calls first in

Call Open = Call an OpenRaise, no?

morny
09-26-2008, 02:48 PM
Yeah thats it

NineLions
09-27-2008, 01:07 PM
I get players with a higher cold call number than VP$IP. I assume that's because the denominator (opportunities to cold call) is lower than the VP$IP opportunities.

Shloogy
09-27-2008, 01:13 PM
thats wrong

since u can call a raise(cold call), raise by urself or just limp, thats why i think that there is something wrong with the definition(!)

morny
09-27-2008, 05:19 PM
Im still not sure what you mean. Ive already stated that my definition of what i thought cold call was is wrong and ive amended this in the FAQ and thats probably what caused the confusion.

So the stat Call Open = call a raise preflop

If you limp or raise then thats something completely different and nothing to do with Call Open

If theres another stat your not sure on let me know and ill explain it

ChipTrick
11-27-2008, 03:44 AM
Definition of "Cold Call" is call (not raise) a raise (3bet, 4bet, any) with no money invested previously.

So.

These are examples of Hero cold call preflop.
1.
PlayerA UTG
PlayerB CO
Hero BTN
PlayerC SB
PlayerD BB
Villain raises, PlayerB FOLDS, Hero calls, blinds fold.

2.
PlayerA UTG
PlayerB CO
Hero BTN
PlayerC SB
PlayerD BB
PlayerA raises, PlayerB CALLS, Hero calls, blinds fold.

3.
PlayerA UTG
PlayerB CO
Hero BTN
PlayerC SB
PlayerD BB
PlayerA raises, PlayerB 3BET, Hero calls, blinds fold, PlayerA calls.

4.
PlayerA UTG
PlayerB CO
Hero BTN
PlayerC SB
PlayerD BB
PlayerA raises, PlayerB 3BET, Hero calls, blinds fold, PlayerA 4bet, Hero calls.
(first Hero call is cold call, second call is not).

These are examples of Hero DOESN'T cold call preflop.
5.
Hero UTG
PlayerA COP
PlayerB BTN
PlayerC SB
PlayerD BB
Hero calls, PlayerA folds, PlayerB raises, blinds fold, Hero calls.

6.
PlayerA UTG
PlayerB COP
PlayerC BTN
PlayerD SB
Hero BB
PlayerA folds, PlayerB raises, folds to Hero, Hero calls.

7.
PlayerA SB
Hero BB
PlayerA raises, Hero calls.

------------------------------------
So, limp/call and calling from blinds are not considered cold call.

I hope I mentioned all possible cases.
Could you please specify what cases are considered "Open Call" for Hero?

Thanks in advance.

morny
11-27-2008, 02:27 PM
Definition of "Cold Call" is call (not raise) a raise (3bet, 4bet, any) with no money invested previously.

So.

These are examples of Hero cold call preflop.
1.
PlayerA UTG
PlayerB CO
Hero BTN
PlayerC SB
PlayerD BB
Villain raises, PlayerB FOLDS, Hero calls, blinds fold.

Call Open

2.
PlayerA UTG
PlayerB CO
Hero BTN
PlayerC SB
PlayerD BB
PlayerA raises, PlayerB CALLS, Hero calls, blinds fold.

Not

3.
PlayerA UTG
PlayerB CO
Hero BTN
PlayerC SB
PlayerD BB
PlayerA raises, PlayerB 3BET, Hero calls, blinds fold, PlayerA calls.

Not

4.
PlayerA UTG
PlayerB CO
Hero BTN
PlayerC SB
PlayerD BB
PlayerA raises, PlayerB 3BET, Hero calls, blinds fold, PlayerA 4bet, Hero calls.
(first Hero call is cold call, second call is not).

Not

These are examples of Hero DOESN'T cold call preflop.
5.
Hero UTG
PlayerA COP
PlayerB BTN
PlayerC SB
PlayerD BB
Hero calls, PlayerA folds, PlayerB raises, blinds fold, Hero calls.

Not

6.
PlayerA UTG
PlayerB COP
PlayerC BTN
PlayerD SB
Hero BB
PlayerA folds, PlayerB raises, folds to Hero, Hero calls.

Call Open

7.
PlayerA SB
Hero BB
PlayerA raises, Hero calls.

Call Open
------------------------------------
So, limp/call and calling from blinds are not considered cold call.

I hope I mentioned all possible cases.
Could you please specify what cases are considered "Open Call" for Hero?

Thanks in advance.

Its when you call an open raise, limp calling is different and calling a 3bet is defined by the call 3bet stat not call open, calls in the blinds are also counted as call open

ChipTrick
11-28-2008, 01:07 PM
Thanks!
What about such case:

8.
PlayerA UTG
PlayerB CO
Hero BTN
PlayerC SB
PlayerD BB
PlayerA CALLS, PlayerB raises, Hero calls, blinds fold.

morny
11-28-2008, 02:08 PM
Yeah hes still facing just 1 raise so thats counted aswell