Can't write prefs files!

[learningcurve2p2]

Morny, you asked that I start a new thread so here it is.

Have been getting the following error message spontaneously while using the HUD:

Can't write prefs files! Retry?

After clicking ok and then I got the following:

Couldn't load config\PosPref.txt
If you continue new panel positions will be written
Do you want to continue?

When I say ok then the stats are all out of position. I replace them only to have to restart HUD and repeat the process again later.

Not sure what is triggering this but is frustrating.

You asked me to delete the posPref.txt file and I did. Didn't work.

You had me upgrade program (Can you try this version which includes an option to export and import configuration http://www.holdemmanager.com/downloads/HmU...03betawhud.exe)
which also didn't work.

Then I did this at your request: Can you completely delete all your files in the config folder and redo your hud and play like that and see if its something in one of those other config files thats causing the problem. Also should have said, dont delete your holdemmanager.config file although its no big deal if you did youll just have to setup your auto import folders again.

Have done all that you suggested but am unfortunately I am still getting the error. Obviously this is rather frustrating and labor intensive so any help you could provide would be much appreciated.

Thanks,
LC

[Mike chops]

So with the current build at what point in the HUD do you get the prompt "Can't write prefs files!"?

[learningcurve2p2]

It seems to happen with no rhyme or reason. One minute I'll have HUD and the next it crashes. When I try to close down HEM I get that error message, but I'm quite sure that I have also gotten it even before then when I've asked it to reload HUD or whatnot as well. Basically I'll be running along well and then all of the sudden I'm not. The only way to get it up and running again is to go back into the program files and to delete the file as was suggested. Obv this is rather labor intensive and is quite impractical when you have a whole bunch of tables up and running.

Thank you for checking into it...
LC

[Mike chops]

It seems to happen with no rhyme or reason. One minute I'll have HUD and the next it crashes. When I try to close down HEM I get that error message, but I'm quite sure that I have also gotten it even before then when I've asked it to reload HUD or whatnot as well. Basically I'll be running along well and then all of the sudden I'm not. The only way to get it up and running again is to go back into the program files and to delete the file as was suggested. Obv this is rather labor intensive and is quite impractical when you have a whole bunch of tables up and running.

Thank you for checking into it...
LC

So you have two seperate problems.

1. Random crashes with the HUD.

2. When you try to close the HEM after a crash, you get the "can't write prefs" message. I'm confused here because I thought this message was part of the HUD program. If the HUD has crashed how can it display this message?

To address the first problem can you please go to the Hud optins->table prefs menu and switch on the logging. When the HUD crashes again, please send me the log.txt file from the Logs folder. You need to do this before restarting the HUD. I'm mlamb1@gmail.com.

[learningcurve2p2]

Okay, I've done as you requested so next time that happens I'll have it logged. In the meantime I just pulled up a new PS table and got the following error. This is not the first time I've seen it:

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w166/LearningCurve2p2/HEM.jpg

I was not playing but am pretty sure that the HUD won't work next time I try to. Think this msg sometimes precedes the other on occasion. Any ideas what would have caused this?

Thanks,
LC

[Mike chops]

Do you have any ahk scripts running?

[learningcurve2p2]

Do you have any ahk scripts running?

Yes, I do in fact. Bet Pot and PS Table Assistant.

[morny]

Can you disable them both and see if it reoccurs

[learningcurve2p2]

Morny,

Unfortunately this is not a good solution as I would have to markedly cut down on the number of tables I am playing without the AHK's. Obviously this would cut into my bottom line and would therefore be a rather expensive solution. Even to test it would be problematic as I can play sometimes for long periods before HEM crashes.

[Mike chops]

FWIW I have many 1,000s of hands with betpot. Could you try without table assistant. It would be good to narrow the problem down, even if this isnt a long-term solution for you.

[learningcurve2p2]

Yes, will do.

FWIW, I just went to close HEM down to delete files and restart just in case. In doing so when I tried to close it I got the original error message again. Deleting files and will start fresh without the Stars Assistant for my next session. Have logging on.

[learningcurve2p2]

Don't know if I'm happy to report this or not but it just bombed again without the Stars Assistant running. Was just getting ready to join some tables I'd waitlisted and got the exception error again. Sending log to email address you gave me.

Thanks,
LC

[learningcurve2p2]

Anything on this yet? It is still bombing every day I play (and sometimes more than once). Really makes it difficult to use HEM. :(:(:(

Thanks,
LC

[AGGIE]

FWIW, i have almost the same issue which i've posted about here:

http://208.109.95.123/forum/showthread.php?t=2119

The "exception thrown in destructor" error usually precedes the "can't write prefs files" error....It's very frustrating, and it's been going on for a while....I use windows vista FWIW...

[skinnybill]

I have had the same problem as well - same error message w/the destructor and then can't write prefs. Very annoying and would REALLY like some sort of work around.

[robrobdoe]

+1 that this is a problem. I don't use AHK scripts. Update to new version seemed to fix it for a bit, but last couple of days it's come back.

[Mike chops]

I've been doing some work on this over the past couple of days and hopefully the next build is better.

[wiltontilt]

Hi Mike, thanks for looking into this as I've also been experiencing problems related to this for the last couple weeks. everytime i get the error i end up having to move around my stats to the correct table positions.

FWIW I'm not using any sort of scripts or hot keys or anything like that. Also on vista. Let me know if there's anything I can do to help you troubleshoot. For me it basically occurs everytime I open up the HUD... or if i've left the software open all night then open a new table and the hud doesn't display, I close out of the table manager and reopen and that's where I get the error about not being able to write the prefs.

Not sure if it would have anything related, but I'm networking my postgres database such that the database is on my laptop and HM connects from my desktop.

Thanks
WoT

[smf]

ye i've noticed what WoT said as well, my pc is pretty much on 24/7 and I hardly ever close HM and the bug occurs especially often after I had HM running over night.

Also, all 3 versions I've tested worked fine for a while before the bug occured for the first time.

[ackbleh]

ye i've noticed what WoT said as well, my pc is pretty much on 24/7 and I hardly ever close HM and the bug occurs especially often after I had HM running over night.

Also, all 3 versions I've tested worked fine for a while before the bug occured for the first time.

This has been happening to me too... on windows XP home... for a few weeks now. I updated to the latest build and it's still a problem. Here's what happens:

1) If I open HEM, play a sesssion, then close HEM and table manager, everything is fine. Prefs file is fine,, Table manager closes out normally, and HUD player info position is stored and loaded fine when I next start HEM and the HUD.

2) If I play, then leave HEM on and importing overnight, then come back the next day to play... as soon as the first hand of the day was imported, triggering the HUD to pop up, I get the error message:
"Exception thrown in destructor (f:\sp\vctools\vc7libs\ship\atlmfc\src\mfc\filecor e.cpp:111)
an unnamed file was not found."

This message repeats each time the HUD would normally pop up on a new table.

Then, when I close HEM, the table manager doesn't close. If I close it by clicking on the taskbar icon then choosing exit, I get the message:
"Can't write prefs files. Retry?"
with the options "yes" and "cancel". Yes just brings up the same box again, while 'cancel' causes the table manager to close. Then the next time I run hold'em manager (and the HUD), I have to move all my player info boxes on my HUD again, as they've reset to the annoying default positions.

just for the record, this is REALLY annoying to have to do every day.

[AGGIE]

^^^^^^^^This is all pretty much exactly what i've been experiencing as well. You guys just described it much better than me

[smf]

still happens w/ beta9, is there any testversion out there you can send to us?

it'd be nice to get a response from support in the threads about this bug :/

[ackbleh]

confirmed it still happens in the latest beta release for me too.

[Mike chops]

http://208.109.95.123/forum/showthread.php?t=239&page=2

Can you try this one?

[smf]

tried the version from the thread, just like with every other version, it worked fine for a while, then the first crash, only with a new twist, this time when it said it couldn't write the prefs files it froze both stars and the hud and i needed to kill the hud to regain control over my tables :/

[smf]

this version also likes to freeze in the mucked cards and alignment edit mode :/

i've asked for this like 3x in the other thread, but could you please supply me with an older version that didnt have this bug altogether?

[LMD]

+1 I am having the same problem, it's possible it had something to do with restarting my computer, but I was playing on Stars for at least ten days before these error messages starting popping up every single time I opened a table. I am using ahk scripts but have been the entire time so I don't think they are the problem.

Also, how can I backup my position scripts in case they get torched?

-Michael

[LMD]

While the destructor error message only applies when I open up a new table, the pospref.txt error message comes up both after the destructor message and every time I start Table Manager. I assume my pospref file is gone?

Edit: I've tried the newest versions and get the same thing. FWIW, I still have the pospref files in my config folder, and they appear to be good, although pospref has nothing in it (which may be how I had it). pospref2 looks good.

-Michael

[smf]

fwiw i've tried backing up my posprefs files and then when the error happens copying them back into the config folder, but you i still get the message the prefs files need to be replaced :/

[smf]

so i tried installing older hud versions on my own, trying to find a version that didn't have this bug and went back to 1.6.1t and that version also has the prefs bug now although im 99.9% certain it didn't have it first, maybe that can help you find the source of the problem

[Daleroxxu]

i had this problem every day then i deleted this file
C:\Program Files\RVG Software\Holdem Manager\Config\PosPref.txt
which was 0 bytes
"saved positions" in table manager and the file was rewritten at 14kb

[Mihas]

I've read all thread and got some questions.
1) Does suppot understand (replay) this problem?
2) Does support work on this problem?
3) How long we should wait for HM vertion with solution?

This problem takes too many time to be solved and I start thinking to return back to PokerTracker3... :mad:

[morny]

Yes Mike has put alot of time into trying to get to the bottom of this but its proven to be a difficult one to solve so well continue to work on this and try and get a solution as soon as possible. Keep an eye on the New betas to see if we find anything

Since we dont know how to fix the problem yet its impossible to give an answer on how long it will take

[Mike chops]

Can anybody with the problem try this build? You will need 1.6.4beta HEM or more. It won't fix it but will hopefully give me more info. Switch on the logging (hud options->table prefs) and send me the log.txt file from the logs folder after you see the error message.

Thanks

mlamb1@gmail.com

[smf]

thx for the new version, just installed and will be testing it. it always took a while before the first initial crash with each version, so i'll probably need 24-48h to be certain this build fixed it.

there is another issue in this build (and the latest 2 beta builds) with the mucked cards and alignment edit mode. whenever i enable it, it freezes my pc and i have to kill the hud with the task manager. i'm pretty sure it has to do with the display of the mucked cards as they aren't getting displayed just before it freezes and the red borders on the panels do show.

when it does freeze there is a white overlay over the entire table.

i'm on the latest nvidia drivers:

---------------
Display Devices
---------------
Card name: NVIDIA GeForce 8600 GT
Manufacturer: NVIDIA
Chip type: GeForce 8600 GT
DAC type: Integrated RAMDAC
Device Key: Enum\PCI\VEN_10DE&DEV_0402&SUBSYS_140110B0&REV_A1
Display Memory: 1777 MB
Dedicated Memory: 241 MB
Shared Memory: 1535 MB
Current Mode: 2560 x 1600 (32 bit) (60Hz)
Monitor: HP LP3065 Wide LCD Monitor
Driver Name: nvd3dum.dll,nvwgf2um.dll
Driver Version: 7.15.0011.7813 (English)
DDI Version: 10
Driver Attributes: Final Retail
Driver Date/Size: 9/17/2008 09:55:00, 5963776 bytes
WHQL Logo'd: Yes
WHQL Date Stamp:
Device Identifier: {D7B71E3E-4742-11CF-856D-0A3401C2CA35}

[Mike chops]

Thanks I'll fix the mucked card/alignment now.

[AGGIE]

Mike, i'm on 1.06.04 beta 12.....I got the 'exception thrown in destructor message today, but did not get the other errors and my saved hud locations weren't lost....So this seems like progress

[Mike chops]

I thought they were gone. :( Thanks for the heads up though

[Mihas]

Where i can download beta 12?

[Mike chops]

Releases forum

[learningcurve2p2]

Any news yet, Mike?

Thanks,
LC

[Mike chops]

I was hoping to get a log.txt file from a build 1.6.4h+ or screen shot of an additional message box I put in. "posprefs.txt error X" it's the number x I want to know.

If you mean the destructor bug... If anyone is having lots of problems with 1.6.4j+ please email me mlamb1@gmail.com and I'll send you a build with a ton of logging info. I thought I tackled a lot of instances of this but have you seen no improvement?

[smf]

so the 1.6.4g had been working without a problem (besides the edit mode freeze thing) for like a week now and this morning completely out of the blue the prefs bug came back:
http://img389.imageshack.us/img389/5249/notagainop9.jpg

the table manager didn't crash, i was just shutting down HM and the hud and when I tried to close the hud the message appeared and obv all stat positions are gone again :/

[Mike chops]

Thanks, but I need the error from 1.6.4H+. The picture you posted is from 1.6.4g. The newer builds have more information as to why the prefs could not be saved.

[smf]

any build newer than .4g doesnt even draw the hud for me :) beta13 and the .4h build both have the other issue that was mentioned in the releases thread and my email this morning.

[smf]

ok back to the old misery now, since the first crash 2 days ago, 4g has lost its prefs files 6x and i cant upgrade to newer versions since they dont work at all, any good news mike?

[Mike chops]

Beta 14.

http://www.holdemmanager.com/downloads/HmUpdate1.06.04beta.exe

Can you try this?

[smf]

just played my first session w/ beta14, no errors so far, great work!

[Mihas]

Today, Beta14.

This bug is more than one month here!!! :mad:
Is it possible to solve this problem? I realy, REALY don't like to spend 30+ minutes on moving stats EVERY single time before i start working:mad:

[Mike chops]

It's hard to fix the problem because it never happpens for me. It is easy to make copies of posprefs.txt and pospref2.txt from the config folder and then overwrite any corrupted files if you see the error message.

The error message was some new code I put in. Thank you for posting the shot. I have some new workaround code that tries to delete pospref.txt if it encounters an error and then rewrite. If you see any new error messages please post again.

[smf]

havent had it in beta14 yet, but maybe i can add something to help

2 observations:

a) if you save your prefs files before a crash happens and then copy those "working" prefs files back to the folder and then start HM it will still prompt you that it cant run without overwriting the current prefs files

b) the bug almost always seems to occur only after HM has been running for a while and the first crash usually takes 1-2 days

[Mike chops]

If you see the can't write prefs message, copy posprefs.txt and pospref2.txt into the config folder before restarting.

[AGGIE]

Been about a week since i downloaded beta14 and just now got the bug again for the first time:
http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/4108/hudbughk2.jpg (http://img514.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hudbughk2.jpg)
http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/hudbughk2.jpg/1/w596.png (http://g.imageshack.us/img514/hudbughk2.jpg/1/)

I'm attaching the log.txt file for your review....I will let you know if this starts happening more frequently

[smf]

just happend to me as well... 1st time with beta14

[ackbleh]

This has been a problem for a LONG time. Is it ever going to get fixed?

[Mike chops]

I haven't got any more log files to look at for a long time. Enable the logging in the table sprefs menu and please send me log files from the latest beta.

Also you need to send the log immediately after the crash. The log.txt a couple of posts above this looks as if the HUD shutdown normally. If you restart the hud after the crash, the file I need is overwirtten.

mlamb1@gmail.com

[ackbleh]

I'm not sending log files because I play 12,000 hands a day and do not want to download/install a beta that doesn't fix the problem but may have even more bugs.

Can you link me to a beta that will allow me to log but definitely not introduce more problems?

[morny]

We cant gaurantee there wont be problems with Betas but heres the last stable release http://www.holdemmanager.com/downloads/HmUpdate1.06.03h.exe but anything you send with that is not really useful as the newer betas have extra logging codes and improvements to stop this problem

FWIW nobody has reported any problems with Beta 16+ for this bug as far as im aware so if your using an older version than that then youll still have the problem and if you need to either try one of the newer betas or wait for another stable release.

[AGGIE]

http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/8196/huderroren2.jpg (http://img266.imageshack.us/my.php?image=huderroren2.jpg)
http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/huderroren2.jpg/1/w629.png (http://g.imageshack.us/img266/huderroren2.jpg/1/)

Happens pretty much every day again now....This just happened....I'm on beta21 and TM 1.6.4q...
I uploaded a partial log file for your review

FWIW, i really appreciate y'all continuing to work on this problem (i can see the tweaks in the new beta tring to rewrite the postprefs file etc.)....I totally understand that this is probably extremely frustrating trying to fix if you can't reproduce the error on a consistent basis.

Anyway, thanks! I'm sure you'll get to the bottom of it soon enough

[Dawme]

It aint that hard to reproduce, at least for me, it happens everyday when im coming back home. Basically, if I let holdem manager opened without playing a relatively long time (like 4+ hours), then it's over, I have to kill / relaunch the hud. Not very important bug though, especially with the save pos options.

[Mike chops]

Thanks for the logs. I got a one from a Stars player and another from a UB user. I'm not sure if it is a coincidence but they are the only two sites I start threads for (Stars for pre-fetching the first hand and UB to mine the HHs). I did some work to clean up the shutdown and maybe that was the cause.

Has anybody seen this error with a recent beta (17+?) and with other sites?

[FeralPoker]

Thanks for the logs. I got a one from a Stars player and another from a UB user. I'm not sure if it is a coincidence but they are the only two sites I start threads for (Stars for pre-fetching the first hand and UB to mine the HHs). I did some work to clean up the shutdown and maybe that was the cause.

Has anybody seen this error with a recent beta (17+?) and with other sites?

I get it on Full Tilt on the most recent beta I was instructed to download in the other thread I started about it and I haven't been able to detect a usage pattern but I'm beyond furious about it, I've wasted god knows how many hours on this.

[morny]

I get it on Full Tilt on the most recent beta I was instructed to download in the other thread I started about it and I haven't been able to detect a usage pattern but I'm beyond furious about it, I've wasted god knows how many hours on this.

Can you verify the exact version please as this is important

[FeralPoker]

Can you verify the exact version please as this is important

Table Manager shows version 1.6.4r which is what I got from the link provided in the other thread and the error behavior is consistent with previous versions, it's not new to this or any other recent update, it's been doing this for the last 3-4 months.

[nemeelucas]

Stars had an update today and after the update I am getting the destructor thrown in error message again.

I am on version 1.6.4q

- nemeelucas

[FeralPoker]

Still getting the exact same thing in 1.6.4s and reloading the configuration in the Player Preferences screen does NOT restore the layout data. HM blew out my layout data yet again this morning so now I am looking at having to do it yet again which frankly I won't bother with, I'm done using HM until there is a fix for this.

[nemeelucas]

I'm only getting this problem intermittently, and I guess there's a version S out? when im still on Q?
Should I dl the S version?

[morny]

Yes download this version http://www.holdemmanager.com/downloads/HmUpdate1.06.04beta.exe and let us know if it improves or not, were continuing to work on this but its being a very difficult problem

[FeralPoker]

Yes download this version http://www.holdemmanager.com/downloads/HmUpdate1.06.04beta.exe and let us know if it improves or not, were continuing to work on this but its being a very difficult problem

Error still happens in 1.06.04.rc7, (TM 1.6.4rc6a). I've had to redo my layout 24 times now and it likely won't be very many more times as I've largely switched to Pokertracker 3 because of this issue and total lack of response in dealing with it. While HM has superior feature set, this is such a time consuming bug for me when it happens, it's just not worth the waste of my time to continue using HM. Beyond furious at lack of progress on this issue.

And before you start with the Save/Restore positions line, that feature doesn't seem to work, I can save positions fine but selecting restore positions after a posprefs file crash does nothing.

[grayfox]

I'm still getting this error with Table Manager 1.6.4rc10 and HEM 1.07. Has any progress been made?

I'm running windows XP if that matters. I've had the problem for months now.

[morny]

You should notice some improvement with this version http://www.holdemmanager.com/downloads/HmUpdate1.07beta.exe but its been a real pain to totally irradicate this bug and its proved a very difficult fix, some people continue to have this problem but for the most part this version reduces it to very rarely if at all

[SteveyJay]

same problem here. just downloaded the beta, will see if it works...

also to note, since i havent seen it posted in this thread, i dont have a directory named f:\sp\vctools\vc7libs\ship\atlmfc\src\mfc

[grayfox]

You should notice some improvement with this version http://www.holdemmanager.com/downloads/HmUpdate1.07beta.exe but its been a real pain to totally irradicate this bug and its proved a very difficult fix, some people continue to have this problem but for the most part this version reduces it to very rarely if at all

I've still gotten the problem several times after the installing this beta.

[Daleroxxu]

currently having to kill HMHud.exe and restart once every 24 hours then reposition my stats, sigh!

[Mike chops]

You can File->save positions and File->Restore positions from the table manager. Also shut down the HUD when you aren't playing?

[Nightrain]

This just started happening to me, I got a new PC had HEM working and been playing on FTP for over 10days now and all of a sudden I get the "Can't write prefs files!, Retry?" Warning.

I Was in the middle of playing, the HUD crash, I shut down and restarted HEM, and the HUD coordinates reset, I had to re align the stats but I couldn't save manually and when I try to shut down HEM I got the warning again.

I did update to 1.11.05 beta 7 from 1.11.05 beta 3, but I tried going back to older versions but I still get the warning.

Not sure what to try now. Any help? Please/Thank you.

[netsrak]

You need to delete the file config\prefs.xml and restart HM.
A new file will be generated and you need to reconfigure your Hud.

[Nightrain]

Deleted it and I still get the warning

[netsrak]

Are you sure you deleted the right file?
There are 3 files in the folder:
prefs.xml
prefs.xml_1.04.13 (some numbers)
and another prefs.xml_1....

The important one is the first file. If you have "Hide known file extensions" activated in the folder options you will only see prefs.........xml file or something like that.

[Nightrain]

Yes, I deleted the first one prefs.xml


Do you have any other suggestions

I'm leaning towards uninstall/re install HEM, I need to have this working soon, (need to work =])

[Patvs]

Which Operating System, Firewall, and Anti-Virus are you using?



For W7 and Vista you must set \holdem manager\dbcontrolpanel.exe, holdemmanager.exe and hmhud.exe are started as administrator. Run the windows explorer and navigate to your Holdemmanager installation directory. Right click the executables and select properties... then select "Run as admin" from the compatibility tab.

Try the FULL reinstall of HM using the 93 MB installer (don't reinstall SQL)
and install it to a different folder.

[Nightrain]

Working now and happily Grinding.

I 1st tried uninstalling from Control panel and re installing into default folder(that didn't work). Then I read your suggestions and went to the HEM folder to make sure .exes are ran as administrator and then I noticed UninstallHoldemManager.exe, I used that and re installed to a new folder location, that worked perfect, although not sure if it was the UnHEM or installing it into a new folder "c:\...\Holdem Manager2"

Thanks for the help!

[Nightrain]

This problem is back!

It just happen out of nowhere in the middle of a set/session (playing Rush SNGs) when I try to save positions after adjusting HUD(coordinates).

I already restarted HEM and deleted prefs.xml and no luck.

But I'm really lost here, what could be doing this?

I'm gonna finish my games and will uninstall re install to a different location, \...\Holdem Manager3

[Patvs]

Which Operating System, Firewall, and Anti-Virus are you using?

Run http://www.holdemmanager.com/downloads/Hm_1.11.05_Beta.exe again = not .05 beta 9

[Nightrain]

Windows 7, Windows default firewall, Kaspersky anti virus 2010

[Patvs]

read: FAQ - Hold'em Manager Poker Tracking Software :: Using Kaspersky Internet Security 2010? (http://faq.holdemmanager.com/questions/127/Using+Kaspersky+Internet+Security+2010%3F+)

[Nightrain]

I did that about a week ago, when it fist came up.

[Patvs]

Reinstall again, to a different folder.
Do you know how the problem came back?
Same error the following day (after a reboot)? Did Windows Update install any updates automatically?

[Nightrain]

Here's a summary

**In the middle of all these days there have been a few Windows updates, but I can't remember for sure which days**

Aug 21st bought new computer, installed HEM and other tools, transfered HH from old computer and had it Importing over night

Aug 22st, mid day done importing, got config files from old PC
to set up HUD, play a few games.

Aug 23~25 working perfect for 2 days+ no problems, and then in the middle of a set/session(2~3 hours of play), I adjust HUD, try to save positions and get Can't write prefs files!, tried a few things, then went looking for help suggestions on HEM forums.

Aug 26 I get a few suggestions from you, and finally got it to work, after doing uninstall using UninstallHoldemManager.exe and installling into new location "c:\...\Holdem Manager2"

Aug 27-30 working again no problems,

*I think they might of been a windows update not sure*

Aug 31 In the middle of a set, maybe 1~2 hours of play I tweak the HUD try to save positions and get Can't write prefs files!, posted on thread problems is back, I do a uninstall and install to "c:\...\Holdem Manager3", played w no problems after that.

Sep 1st play about 25 Rush SNG, still tweaked my HUD and save position w no problems.

I will try to look out for windows updates and keep a notepad log about which nights my PC does a SHUT down and update.

Thanks again for you help!