View Full Version : Tilt Demon - Stop Loss Tilt Prevention, How much WOULD you have saved!

11-21-2009, 04:28 AM

I'm releasing some new software very soon, the website is at www.tiltdemon.com but thats not in public beta yet for a few days but in the meantime im releasing a program that connects to your holdemmanager database and tells you how much you would have won/lost if you applied a stop/loss system and stopped playing when you:

Were losing -$300 (or any amount you specify)
Were winning +$300 (or any amount you specify)
You reached 1000 hands (or any amount you specify)
You played for more than 1.5 hours


Now the idea for this came from my own tilt issues, im not a bad tilter as in i dont play while drunk, or shout or roar or throw the cat at the dog or anything but when im on a losing run too often it turns into a shocking 6+ buyin downswing simply because i stop playing my A game and im continuing to play the rest of that session at a -bb/100 rate. However much i knew i was tilting i couldnt stop and kept going until i won something back, this occassionaly worked but more often than not the opposite happened and i turned a mole into a mountain.

I did manage to restrict my games to 2 hour sessions which helped alot but i still have trouble stopping sometimes specifically when im down as i hate finishing on a negative. I know from reading various forums this is a big problem for alot of people so i decided to start this project.

Quite ironically i also find that when im up a couple of buyins im actually playing -EV which was a surprise, its not something i was even aware of but in heinsight i do tend to take more risks and also lose interest when im running good so i do advise checking your bb/100 when your up 2,3 or 4+ buyins as you maybe surprised.

So the idea of this saving calculations software is to let you experiment and see when your 1) wining/losing 2) playing for long periods or 3) playing alot of hands per session if your bb/100 is good or bad. It should tell you whether its profitable or not to continue playing in those situations so feel free to try it out to see if its a leak. btw a session is defined as any group of hands where there was no consecutive break of more than 1 hour between each hand. I set it at 1 hour because i really feel this is the minimum time you need to forget about the last session and feel like your starting fresh.

You can download this software via the website www.tiltdemon.com/savings.html


The site is still under construction in other areas but the savings calculator should work fine. All the instructions are at that site. As you can see below it highlights each session that exceeded our limit, shows the start and end time of the session, the hand that triggered the exceed, the total hands played after the exceed and finally the total lost/won after the exceed in $ and also bb/100 which is basically what we would have won/lost had we had a stop/loss system in place.

Now i'm not saying you should just stop playing for the day as ive heard people say if i stopped playing everytime i had a downswing id lose a fortune on rake, thats not what im saying, if you can play through a long or losing/winning session and the calculator shows your making close to the same bb/100 you make on average then its fine to keep playing. But if your win rate is still positive but only half your normal winrate by rescheduling and doing something else like bringing the dog for a walk and then play poker after an hour break you should return and be able to double the bb/100 rate compared to the winrate you could have won had you continued to play when you weren't on your A game. If your running at a negative bb/100 when you exceed any of those limits then its certainly a big potential leak assuming the sample size is reasonable. I'm sure there are cases due to family commitments or work commitments where your poker hours are limited but for the most part we all have some leeway in when we can play to a certain extent. Whether you want to continue to play when your losing money is up to you, if you don't want to continue to lose then read on.


The Solution

Now if you find your bb/100 is suffering when your exceeding one of the stop/loss limits then the best way to eliminate that leak is to stop when this happens. However the compulsion to keep playing and recover losses is extremely difficult to overcome for a lot of people. If your one of those people then the software we will be releasing should be a big help.

Now this software isn't groundbreaking, many respected posters and poker players have written tons of articles on how tilt can affect your game, this software just makes it easier to stop. Im sure there are some players that will have no use for this software as they have already conquered tilt or there tilt isnt directly related to long sessions or losing session but i know for myself and many others out there it is a big problem.

Basically what our software does is track your win/loss, hands played and time played. You configure a stop loss that you want to stop playing when you exceed that figure, that could either be an amount won/lost like -$300 or 1000 hands played or 1.5 hours played.

When you exceed the applicable stop/loss our software will allow you 4 mins to close your tables and if you don't close down within that time it will automatically close the poker client. (you can specify which username and pokersites you can be excluded for)

Now i know some sites have a 12 hour exclusion or week long exclusion but our software aims to give you as much control as possible, if you feel you need 1 hour break when tilting then you set it to 1 hour, if you need 3 hours then set that, as soon as that time passes it will allow you to play. This is extremely important for players who rely on rake and want to be able to exclude themselves but come back and play again when tilt subsides.

If you attempt to play before the excluded time it will not allow you. We've put in place a lot of controls that prevent you bypassing the lockout by changing the time/changing databases/trying to uninstall etc while still allowing you to continue to use your computer interrupted. There are possibly situations we haven't considered but well catch those during beta and patch them up but our main concern is that its not easy to bypass but if there was a program that couldn't be stopped or killed somehow then it would be the ultimate virus so we obviously don't want to create that but most average PC users will find it extremely hard to bypass this to the point the exclusion period will probably be over before they get near to figuring it out.

Again you can choose the site your locked out, you might have a separate account you just keep a few bob for playing tournaments in, if so then don't add this site and if you tilt and get locked out you can still blow off a few bob on the other site. Our aim is to give you as much control as possible.

Theres other details on the website if you want to check it out further and if you want to beta test it please visit our forums www.tiltdemon.com/forum and look for the beta testers thread.

This version is only compatible with Holdem manager however well have a poker tracker version available soon too.

If your worried about downloading from a newbie which i know is a concern for any poker player then just thought id mention i worked for holdem manager support for about a year as you can see by my post count:)

Id be very interested to hear what trends people are finding with the savings calculator or if they're are any bugs, heres my findings but i'm sure depending on your tilting tendencies other peoples may differ a lot

At 100nl over 100k+ sample where i ran over +5bb/100 for the total sample
stop loss (-$300) i was -2bb/100
stop loss (-$250) i was +3bb/100
stop loss (-$200) i was +6bb/100
stop loss (-$150) i was +6.7bb/100
stop loss (-$100) i was +8.7bb/100
stop loss (-$50) i was +8.5bb/100

stop loss (+$300) i was -2.5bb/100
stop loss (+$200) i was -2bb/100
stop loss (+$150) i was +0.57bb/100
stop loss (+$100) i was +1bb/100
stop loss (+$100) i was +2.5bb/100

So in my example its pretty obvious the more i win the poorer my game becomes (as i mentioned due to being overly aggro and willing to gamble more and also i feel i lose interest/concentration rather than when im breakeven or losing a small amount and trying to turn it into a winning session i concentrate more but i just didnt realise the extent of this before this calculator) and also i can play good up until i lose 2 buyins, after that point i suspect i begin to feel frustrated as ill struggle to make it a winning session and start to drop my levels, however been aware of this might help me that i know when i reach the -$200 threshold i need to compose my concentration or stop playing and possibly set my limit at -$250 and keep an eye on how i do between -$200 and -$250 and if i continue to run at +3bb and dont improve then its better to decrease my stop level to -$200 as i can play better than 3bb/100 when im concentrating fully and ironically i seem to concentrate better when i have a small loss and im trying to turn it into a winning session.

Now that was during a time i felt i controlled tilt by restricting my sessions to 2 hours max most of the time but i hadnt realised how obviously + or - 2 buyins were effecting my winrate, previous to that i often played 2-5 hours sessions. So you should use a similar approach to find the threshold where your win rate starts to decrease. You can also use the time and hands feature as well as this can be very useful too.

11-29-2009, 11:00 PM
Goddam it, you beat me to it.

</throws out his current C# project>

Nice job though!

The Minder
12-02-2009, 12:10 AM
Off the top of my head:

~ will this work for tournies/SnGs or is this another cash only thing.

~ can the stop loss be set as a percentage... say for x% of current BR. Hmmm, HEM doesn't do bankrolls so I'm guessing the answer is 'no'

12-02-2009, 11:15 PM
I dont have email notification on here so if you need a response in a hurry just email me or use 2+2 forums as i dont check in here too often.

1) It supports cash but we will be adding tourney support, they way it will work for tournies is when you exceed your loss or time cap it will track all the tables youve open and when they finish it will lockout, if you start new tournaments after the lockout came into place (youll get a notification) then it wont wait for you to finish that tourney. In later versions ill look into ways to block you entering another tourney when the locks in place but the deterrent of knowing if you start another tourney you likely wont have time to finish should be enough

2) No but since you know your bankroll and know what x% is you can set this yourself, it would be extremely difficult to track your bankroll and it would also be very susceptible to easy bypass of the lockout using this method.

El Helado
12-03-2009, 07:05 AM
This is just superawesome-o. Ive played over a million hands online etc and have been playing basically every day without any break over 2 weeks for the last 4 years and even thou I dont consider myself to tilt hardcore anymore I sure get effected and Im gonna download to see if the software confirms it.

A few thoughts

1) My biggest concern is if you play multiple sites simultaneously? I sometimes play 3-6 different sites at the same time and I THINK that HM imports after the HH-formating which have the servertimes that is different for each site. That will probably screw this up for me, at least if im planning on playing 2 sessions with only 1-3 hour breaks. Am I correct?

2) Is it possible to get it to track for both BBs and $? I mix 5/10 with 50/100 depending on the value and games going and I would love to set my stoploss to like -5000$ or -100 BBs (FL) whichever hits first.

3) Sounds amazing with the lockdown and stuff. If it just were to show "You have now exceeded your stoploss limit" and I could make it go away by pressing "OK" then this software would be pretty useless. Anyways, I was thinking that maybe it would be possible to lock certain stakes? Like I want to play 3/6-5/10 now during a downstreak but it gets so freaking tempting to play 30/60 if I see a fish only and the variance there is obviously sick and I get so angry with myself that I never learn to stick to lower stakes for a longer period of time.

4) Big freaking kudos in general! Nice to see that you think a bit outside the box (I know there is stoploss-scripts etc) and create stuff that us players need and that is not as obvious as like, tablescanner for omaha or something, i dunno.

12-07-2009, 06:05 PM
1) yes but weve plans to include timezone support, just a matter of adding an offset for each site that it adjusts, its a bit complicated but as soon as were through the other basic features well work on this

2) Yes this is already on the todo list

3) It could be implemented by checking HM and seeing if any 30/60 hands are importing and if it sees this then close it down and obviusly you set what stakes are allowed and not, but you could simply turn HM and play without it. It is in our plans to offer a non obligitary option to not allow you to play poker unless HM is running, this is for people that think they may cheat by turning of HM and play without it but like i said its not for everybody as people have genuine reasons for playing without HM so it will be an option. When this option is in place then i think this would be a good suggestion.

Also as a temp measure you could use the $ loss as a backup, so if for whatever reason you jump a couple of levels to chase a fish youll quickly run through your stop loss if you lose a few hands because the buyin is much bigger then the normal stakes you play, not perfect but might keep you going

4) Yeah its a pretty simple idea and the basis was already out there with daves stop loss script, the main motivation was i realised myself that i was losing too much in latter parts of sessions and having abnomrmal downswings too often of 6-10 buyins so there wasnt anything available, the real surprise for me was im just as bad when im up a few buyins as down a few buyins but thats much harder spot and i think this will surprise people more than anything as were kinda expecting our winrate to drop when were on a downswing but most people dont expect it when there winning

Anyway thanks for all the feedback and ill try to get as many features in as soon as weve time

12-15-2009, 12:55 PM
Its possible to alert me to stop when im winning, but starts to lose ?!


Stop Loss = 2 Buy-ins = $200

Im up like $500 after 700hands, if i drop to $300 he will alert me ?!

12-15-2009, 02:22 PM
Its possible to alert me to stop when im winning, but starts to lose ?!


Stop Loss = 2 Buy-ins = $200

Im up like $500 after 700hands, if i drop to $300 he will alert me ?!

yeah we could get something like that added where it alerts you to a downswing, if you lose x amount in x amount of time or something like that

12-15-2009, 02:22 PM
Beta is now released at www.tiltdemon.com/trial.html

Were going to keep things simple for the beta and disable some of the extra features to allow easy bypass of the stop loss lockout just in case there are any serious issues i dont want to leave people locked out of their poker clients for a couple of hours. When its working smoothly well start introducing methods to counteract bypassing the lockout.

So feel free to experiment, ive written a detailed first draft user manual you can find here www.tiltdemon.com/TiltDemonUserManual.pdf so almost everything is covered in there.

FOR VISTA AND WINDOWS 7 THERE ARE SOME ISSUES WITH UAC SO FOR NOW UNTIL WE FIGURE OUT THOSE ISSUE PLEASE DISABLE UAC AND REBOOT BEFORE YOU INSTALL TILTDEMON AND ALSO DURING USE. Instructions for Vista and Windows 7 are here: http://www.howtogeek.com/howto/windows-vista/disable-user-account-control-uac-the-easy-way-on-windows-vista/


Issues that we already know about

The win loss application sometimes causes Tilt Demon to stop responding when the stop loss is hit for about 30 seconds, HM will also not refresh during this 30 second period but everything will return to normal and youll be locked out as expected. This only happens rarely currently but were trying to track down the cause and its a minor problem, if this happens try closing and reopening the win loss application.

Ive tested this on XP, Vista and Windows 7 and it has worked fine for me. We wont be supporting pre windows XP as HM do not support Windows 2000 anymore and also i don't think PostgreSQL do either but it may work.

Beta version can be downloaded here: www.tiltdemon.com/trial.html

If for some reason you get locked out and need to get back in just uninstall tilt demon and it should be fine after that, in the full release you wont be allowed to uninstall if your locked out, as soon as the lockout expires you can then uninstall if you wish and as i mentioned we've made it easy to bypass the lockout during the beta on purpose, after we've confirmed its working well we will make it much harder to bypass.

Any bugs should be reported here: http://www.tiltdemon.com/forum/showthread.php?p=39#post39

12-15-2009, 02:34 PM
I try to install it, but always stops in step 3 "Postgre service is running" - He tell me the service is not running

I check in the services tab and "PostgreSQL Server" is started, im also download and instal de psqlodbc 8.4

Im using Vista 64

12-29-2009, 09:31 AM
Hi Tilt Demon Savings trial expired!?

01-24-2010, 11:19 AM
Sorry that was fixed, its probably better to contact me via 2+2 or my email info@tiltdemon.com as i used to work here as support on these forums so im subsribed to hundreds of threads and if it turn on email notification i get tons of emails. Anyway coming very soon weve added ability to add a positive or negative amount to stop loss i.e -$200 or +$200, also bb/100 which can also be positive or negative and weve added a stop loss for hands played and time played too so keep an eye on www.tiltdemon.com or the 2+2 tilt demon thread

03-13-2010, 07:28 AM
Tilt Demon v1.2 is now released and can be downloaded here:
Tilt Demon - Stop Loss Tilt Prevention Software (http://www.tiltdemon.com/trial.html)

New Features:

[Feature] Trailing Loss (Peak Loss) i.e you set your peak to -200, after a while your up 500, you lose 220 in a pot leaving you +280, So we take your peak of 500 - 280 = 220 and your loss kicks in even though your still up 280 as youve lost 220 from your peak

[Bug] fixed the install problem at "Service for Postgres 8.x Server is runnung." where it couldnt detect PostgreSQL for some people

[Feature] Started the facelift and cleanup of tiltdemon but still some work to do

[Feature] Added a tiltdemon icon to the taskbar when tiltdemon is running

[Feature] Add and option to switch to an alarm notification rather than a complete lockout, Note this was giving us some trouble so this was a bit rushed, so for now Ive just introduced a basic visual alarm and the next version will have a proper alarm.

Recent Features and bug list
[Bug] PowerBuilder Application Execution Error (R0020). Application terminated. Error: Database command has not been successfully prepared error fixed
[Bug] PostgreSQL 8.4 Support

Recap for anyone new:

What Does Tilt Demon Do
Tilt Demon is a silent program that works in the background tracking your winnings and losses through your Holdem Manager Database and allows you to set limits such as amount lost, amount won, bb’s lost or won, time played and hands played and also a trailing loss where it calculates your loss from the highest point in a session.

When you have exceeded one of those limits then Tilt Demon will alert you to this and give you a specified amount of time to close down your poker client. If you fail to do so it will then shut your poker client down automatically and block any subsequent attempts to open it. It allows you to set the lock out time which may be short or long depending on your tendencies to overcome tilt.

The philosophy behind it is when someone is tilting they are not in control of their emotions and so Tilt Demon takes control for them and makes a decision to stop playing, a decision you already made before hand when you set the stop loss limit but in your current state of mind you’re incapable of enforcing. We support all sites that Holdem Manager currently support.

You can set Tilt Demon to lock you out when you exceed any of the following

$ Won
$ Lost
bb's Won
bb's Lost
Peak Lost
Peak Won
Hands Played
Time Played

You can set it to Lock you out completely for a set amount of time or you can set it to run an alarm

heres some screenshots of the improved interface although its still work in progress and ive extended the trial for 2 more weeks until its completed along with some outstanding bugs:




Heres a short video clip
YouTube - tiltDemon.mp4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlDxeYL4cjQ&feature=player_embedded)

Heres the 2+2 thread Nov 2009 - Tilt Demon - Stop Loss Tilt Prevention, How much WOULD you have saved! - Page 4 - Commercial Software -- Two Plus Two Poker Forums (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/167/commercial-software/nov-2009-tilt-demon-stop-loss-tilt-prevention-how-much-would-you-have-saved-638882/index4.html)

03-21-2010, 08:48 PM
Version 1.2a
Fixed issue some people had with Database command error when installing~
Fixed issue with Invisible Tilt Demon Icon in the taskbar

You can download here
Tilt Demon - Stop Loss Tilt Prevention Software (http://www.tiltdemon.com/trial.html)

Can anyone with that error please download the new trial, working on a new version now with some more fine tuning and features, the database command install error has put me back a few days so ive still to get in contact with a couple of people who have specific issues via teamviewer, ill get to that in the next few days

04-09-2010, 12:01 AM
Version 1.3 available for download here:
Tilt Demon - Stop Loss Tilt Prevention Software (http://www.tiltdemon.com/trial.html)

[Feature] Completed an overhaul of the overall look of the software and cleaned it up
[Feature] Added an alarm that sounds when your stop loss is exceeded
[Bug] Fixed some bugs with muwz.exe and several other OS bugs
[Feature] Removed the win/loss app and replaced it with a logging system that keeps track of everything that tilt demon and HM records
[Feature] Added a feature that prevents you making changes to your settings once your stop loss is 30% of your total stop loss, once you drop below 30% or the session expires you can again make changes to the lockout time and stop loss settings
[Feature] Added the ability to change the lockout times from the configurations TAB

Ive extended the trial once again to allow any old users to have another go at the trial, let me know if you've any problems.

Note to people who have postgreSQL installed on a server:
This version should auto detect your port and server during install but i think it still needs more work for people who are running their postgreSQL on a server as it was giving a lot of issues during testing, i hadnt time to do more testing on that but ill look into it soon, it should get by the install but instead it may give an error on startup.

All in all this version should be pretty stable:)

the manual has also been updated

05-25-2010, 04:00 AM

07-21-2010, 06:25 PM
I just downloaded the Savings Calc program, and after connecting to the database it says there's an error: "Sites: Field 'minuteadjustment' not found."

After clicking "OK" nothing appears in the "Holdem Site:" or "Player Name: columns."

I thought maybe the Calculator was just unsupported since there is the trial version of the Tilt Demon available, but I don't see a calculator in the trial after downloading it as well.

I'm not sure if the software (Demon) will help me or not so I want to run some reports to see if it would.

(this could easily be due to the 7/21 FTP update, but don't know for sure)

07-23-2010, 03:35 PM
See this thread Sites: field ‘minuteadjustment’ not found ERROR - Tilt Demon - Stop Loss Tilt Prevention Software (http://www.tiltdemon.com/forum/showthread.php?t=23)

07-24-2010, 07:19 PM
tyvm, I'll check those two places before bugging you again next time! :o

10-24-2010, 03:09 AM
This is awesome if it works!

11-05-2010, 08:45 AM
Thanks for HH extractor, really good tool.

Any way to report to phpBB forums?

11-12-2010, 10:08 PM
I had plans to improve that tool but it didnt really get much interest and also HM is starting to do this anyway, you can right click and choose copy hands to clipboard w/stats. Its currently only basic but im sure it will improve.

Regarding Tilt Demon i done a complete re-write and im looking for beta testers if your interested email me.

Just a taste of whats coming:
* Multiple tracking of stop losses, it will lockout when it exceeds the first one
* Ability to set whats defined as a session
* New and improved adding pokersites and username
* Supports every site Holdem Manager supports and every skin
* Tournament Support will include the ability to lock you out if you exceed your limit. How it works is it will notify you when you exceed your limit and warn you it will lockout when the last tournament is completed. If you attempt to start a new tournament and ignore it then it will immediately lock you out. I'm open to suggestions on other options too.
* Ability to filter the game type and stakes you want to track
* Ability to prevent playing outside your bankroll, set it to 100nl for example and if it detects you playing higher it will lock you out
* You can set a restriction on your stop loss of lets say 30%, once you reach that you can no longer change any settings. You have control over the %
* Panic Button, you can right click the Tilt Demon Icon to launch the panic button and leave it on your desktop, pressing this manually locks you out
* If you lose more than x bb's it will auto launch the panic button for x seconds, this allows you to lock yourself out quickly after losing a big pot, again you have the control over how many bb's and how many seconds
* The panic button and a message appear when you exceed the milestones of 30%, 50% and 75% of your stop loss, again you can control if they should be shown at these milestones and for how long
* Like Tilt Demon 1 an alarm will also sound if you choose this option
* Like Tilt Demon 1 you can just choose to have an alert and not a forced lockout
* Very extensive lockout protection, lot of work went into this
* You can set it to lock you out if you stop holdem manager or stop the auto import, these are up to your discretion but again provide a bypass method.
* Provides bypass protection for deleting files, uninstalling, renaming exe's, killing processes, changing system time, deleting hands after you lost a big pot, switching database and much more
* Coding is much more solid, its simple to install and use
* New savings calculator that allows you to scan up to 15 different stop/losses at once and plots the results on a graph showing you an overview of how you perform at different stop losses along with huge speed increases on the original version
* Better logging

Im probably at 90% there at the moment so if your interested in beta testing email info@tiltdemon.com

Secret Cinema
03-05-2011, 05:01 AM
Hi, I was wondering what have happened with the project? Are you still going to develop it because I tried to install the latest version but it doesnt start at all. When I try to configure, it crashes. Same story when reopen it. Thanks

03-07-2011, 10:13 PM
Please email info@tiltdemon.com with details and screenshots of your crash and they will be able to help

Alex $pirin
04-19-2011, 11:42 AM
Is Tilt Demon dead?

Alex $pirin
09-23-2011, 03:20 PM
Morny, give us feedback...

El Helado
09-23-2011, 04:48 PM
Tried tiltbreaker which is a lot of worse, supporting like 3 pokernetworks while tildemon supported around 10 :(.

09-23-2011, 05:42 PM
I will forward a link to this thread to morny's email so he can respond.