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theumbra
10-28-2009, 10:18 PM
Hi,

just checked out leakbuster and it told me i got 10 (!) leaks.

i play a highly volatile lag style on NL50 fullring something most opponents have a real problem with. My non-showdown winnings (red line in the graph) are higher then my showdown winnings so i constantly try to outplay my opponents...

i'm well into profit with a bb/100 of 21, only playing 2 tables because i need to dig into HM alot to analyze my opponents...

must admit that i was only able to fully exploit this style via holdem manager (thanks for that btw) and i was very curious about this new software...

but it seems to me it is only useful for tight play ?! sadly, the trial doesnt show me enough to fully judge this tool, so i just want to know if any lagtastic like me is using this with success ??

cheers !

Leak Buster Support
10-29-2009, 02:18 AM
Leak Buster's advice is based on the most profitable styles which are slightly tight TAG to slightly LAG. There are very few people who can maintain truly LAG game long term. It also becomes harder and harder to do this across many tables as you move up into higher stakes.

But if you post up some graphs and stats from HEM I could give you better and more specific advice about how Leak Buster could help your game.

Pureman
11-24-2009, 01:20 PM
classic, wondering whether he is still a winning player :D

theumbra
11-24-2009, 01:57 PM
had no time for poker, but last reply and subsequent auto-email woke me up

my cash graph:
http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/374/cashgraphc.jpg

only 10K hands, but as said i only play 2 tables at once and sadly not much time at all atm.

I'm a recreational player, but i take the game serious. About a year ago i played like your typical tighty. Built up my bankroll from 70 to ~700 with DoNs (up to $50, but mostly $10/$20) and a few MTTs.

Once i got HM i adopted my own LAG style and started to play NL50. Now i doubled my bankroll. Best of all, just needed a fraction of hands compared to my DoN time and LAG style seems to be more robust swing-wise (at least it appears like that to me), because i do not depend on my cards alot... (red curve is alot less swingy compared to blue one, see graph)

stats:
http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/553/statsoverall.jpg

best,
Umbra

Leak Buster Support
11-24-2009, 04:48 PM
So in your 8.8k hands, that's not LAG play. That's a little more like passive TAG. And you understand that you need maybe 300k or more hands to really get an idea where your winrate is going to be? Some people play 8k hands in one session.

I would say that if what's working for you, keep doing it. But just looking at the stats you posted, there are several areas that will be hard to maintain profitably in long term. Your aggression is too low, your call 3-bet is too high, etc...

So would Leak Buster help your game? Absolutely. But I'd wait and see how your game plan works out for you, and then see if you want to make some adjustments.

Tom888
11-25-2009, 12:30 PM
I was really interested in theumbra's post.

When I read his first note I thought of a serious LAG player...maybe playing around 30/25/10...that's pretty serious LAG.

Then when I saw the stats they were actually 23/11/2 which in the great scheme of it all is pretty TAG...except the PFR looks low and so does the 3bet. My reaction is one of this being a passive player...calling a stack of 3 bets and not raising or 3betting quite so much.

It's interesting how we all have a different perception of what the stats mean to us.

If the OP's style is profitable...and good luck to him if it is...I'd suggest it'd be even more profitable if he LAGed it up even more with less calling and more raising and 3betting.

In comparison...my stats are 23/17/6 and I still feel that I'm a bit tight at times. LeakBuster has shown that I need to be more aggressive postflop and respect villains' flop raises and 3bets more...especially when I'm OOP.

Interesting perspective on the interpretation of the stats...and I wish my graph looked as good!

theumbra
01-09-2010, 10:13 PM
well, had some time to dig into my game, coz this "tight passive" comment really got to me.

i digged into the 3 million hands i have (NL 25 and 50). pulled up players with at least 5K hands. (all hands fullring)

i found NO ONE with 5K+ hands fullring winning with 30/25. This is not serious lag, but serious -EV. Found only one exception, with 31/16 and 11 bb/100 winrate. This is not even close to 30/25...

out of the top 10 winning players, only one has a greater PFR and VPIP then me (the exception noted above).

if i compare my vpip to all players with 5K+ hands, i'm in the top 3% vpip wise.

the best winrate is in the vpip 15.2 to 31.5 group (median winrate 2.41).
This big range of 15 - 31 suggests that vpip alone means not that much...

the typical tighty runs between 5/8 and 10/15 at the tables i play. and the winnings they make are much more volatile, because they play mostly for showdown value.

Postflop Aggression, my value is again in the best range distribution:
0.78 to 1.99: median winrate 0.42
1.99 to 2.35: median winrate 1.5
2.36 to 2.89: median winrate 1.26
2.90 to 3.70: median winrate 0.83
3.71 to 58.0: median winrate 0.59

my value is 2.29, best of this group...

My Flop CBet is 76%, my turn CBet is 48% and my river-cbet is 67% (!)

I earn 70% of my winnings without a showdown, so how can this be labelled passive?

i say most people simply can't play postflop at NL25/50. many grinders are small winning players, mostly with a tight preflop range and "abc-postflop-please-let-me-hit-and-go-to-showdown" poker.

they typically have a graph with a constantly descending red curve and an ascending blue one. they almost never outplay people. it's not really hard to outplay them. i guess i made most of my money from that type of player.
nothing against that style, but i guess they will fall flat on their face if they try to climb stakes...

so my question is: what is a serious full-ring lag ? please define..

Leak Buster Support
01-09-2010, 11:34 PM
Is it important for you for some reason to be classified as LAG? I'd advise just playing the style that is most comfortable for you. See how it works for 200k hands, and you'll have a better idea of what needs to change or not change.

I'm not sure if you understand though that you're likely playing against grinders who are playing 10 or more tables, you are playing 2. You should be out playing them post flop. Your winrate is going to be higher the less tables you play.

I guess I don't understand the jist of your series of posts honestly. Do you want feedback on your play? Do you want someone to confirm the style you're playing?

To answer the one question you asked, LAG means you are playing Loose pre-flop (which you're playing fairly TAG), and aggressive post flop (which is looks like you're playing passive perhaps in multi-way pots, and maybe aggressive in your raised pots). Hard to tell w/o complete stats, but your basic Agg is in the median (TAG range) and not in a more LAG range. Based on the stats you've posted, and about 6 years of playing experience myself, you have some stats that are not sustainable. Calling 50% of 3-bets in 100bb games over a large sample size is going to be very costly (as one example).

theumbra
01-10-2010, 12:52 AM
i don't care what my classification is, but i want to have the right perception about my play.

of course i understand that i play vs alot of mediocre grinders.

the jist of my "series" of 3-4 posts is still the question if leakbuster can help me or not. the trial really gives me no real answer. I got a "step-2" screen telling me i have 9 leaks and 4 potential with a 8.1 average score. My initial thought was: does this take playstyle into account...

example:
vpip value: 23.1 range: 14-20 score:6

my own data (3 million full ring hands) suggests a range of 15-31 with a median winrate of 2.41.

leakbuster tells me i should consult a 6-max starting hand chart ? even though i imported fullring only hands ? does this mean all those scores are based on 6max ?

bb fold to steal value: 63.6 range: 69-83, score 4 (!)

my BB winnings are -7$ and i am quite comfortable with that. My own analysis shows that i am in much more trouble with the way i play my SB.

there is only one leak displayed i'm actively working on. PFR/VPIP ratio... the other 6 leaks i can't see in detail (just the overall number).

statistics are nice, but if you normalize your data without taking playstyle into account, i can't see how this can work except for basic stuff (like my gross 50% 3bet calls).

but since i hear in other posts that NL100+ winning players praise your tool, i'm wondering what i miss...

Leak Buster Support
01-10-2010, 06:22 PM
So my general answer to your question is yes it will help you. If you're a micro stake player learning the game, there's a ton you're going to learn from the software.

It accounts for playing style because the ranges are fairly wide, and the scoring is adjusted based on how much outside of that range the average winrate deviates. So the primary point for step 2 as an example is to make you aware of areas of your game that are difficult to maintain profitability long term, and areas where your game may become major leaks. If you score a 6 or lower, it's an area you're going to want to examine.

Your bb fold to steal as an example, it's very hard to maintain profitability calling raises out of position. In small sample sizes, yes you can possibly show profit, but long term it's going to be an issue. If you doubt this, then just ask other good players.

Take a look at your stats in step 3 also, and see if there are areas where you probably want to review your game. As far as the charts, they load 6-max and full ring starting charts (it says this at the top of the document).

Good luck.