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tiratrocos
10-27-2009, 06:57 PM
I'm new at cash games, so please bare with me (tho I've seen some vids and read a few forums).

In the starting hand chart for EP the range is around 8%. Coincidently that is exactly my early un-open PFR.

For my surprise the Early UO PFR optimal range is supposed to be from 13 to 19.5%. 13% is exactly (or around) the range for Middle UO PFR from the starting hand charts.

Am I missing something here?

Also, one other question: I'm playing at Ongame where obviously the dynamics of the table is different from PS or FT, which I assume have a tougher, or at least tighter, field and probably LB's database is most based on those sites (I'm playing NL30 btw).

Does LB has the poker network into consideration?

Lunatic973
10-27-2009, 11:22 PM
I'm playing at Ongame where obviously the dynamics of the table is different from PS or FT, which I assume have a tougher, or at least tighter, field and probably LB's database is most based on those sites (I'm playing NL30 btw).

Does LB has the poker network into consideration?

The games are tighter on PS or FT, that's funny. They're the loosest of any of the sites.

Also I'd assume that LB ranges are optimal ranges based on holdem in general, and have nothing to do with specific sites. Adjusting to the players at different sites are going to be things that are player dependent.

tiratrocos
10-27-2009, 11:40 PM
The games are tighter on PS or FT, that's funny. They're the loosest of any of the sites.

Also I'd assume that LB ranges are optimal ranges based on holdem in general, and have nothing to do with specific sites. Adjusting to the players at different sites are going to be things that are player dependent.

You are not surprised to see an opening range of 13 to 19.5% from EP?

As I said, I've been raising 8% of the hands at Ongame and most pots I have at least one caller. if I raise more hell knows what will happen =)

(I'm specifying the network, dunno where I got that about FT and PS being tighter, maybe from SNG's or something)

Leak Buster Support
10-28-2009, 01:44 AM
I'm new at cash games, so please bare with me (tho I've seen some vids and read a few forums).

In the starting hand chart for EP the range is around 8%. Coincidently that is exactly my early un-open PFR.


For my surprise the Early UO PFR optimal range is supposed to be from 13 to 19.5%. 13% is exactly (or around) the range for Middle UO PFR from the starting hand charts.

Am I missing something here?


What starting hand chart are you referring to? 8% is 22+/AQ+. If you are referring to the LB chart, the chart recommends 16.4% from EP. These are general guidelines.



Also, one other question: I'm playing at Ongame where obviously the dynamics of the table is different from PS or FT, which I assume have a tougher, or at least tighter, field and probably LB's database is most based on those sites (I'm playing NL30 btw).

Does LB has the poker network into consideration?

The difference in win-rate for players who are opening in 6-max 10% or less is almost 3bb/100. It's a significant difference. To simplify this, if you only played AA/KK from any position, you'd win if your opponents would play with you when you actually raised. However, there are a ton of other hands that are also profitable from each position. So learning how to add the most profitable hands from those positions will allow you to maximize the total hands you're dealt each round you're at the table.

Now of course if you are just learning and playing 30NL, you want to make sure that you add hands slowly to your arsenal. You don't want to add too many too fast, otherwise you'll get yourself into too many uncomfortable situations. However, in order to learn and grow as a poker player, at some point you have to step into an uncomfortable place in order to learn something new.

LB took stats from all the major poker networks (a list is posted somewhere on here), and merged them. We found there weren't significant enough differences in terms of ratios of winrate between the different stats for different sites or networks to warrant wanting to look at specific sites. Meaning, that even if the average win-rate was slightly higher on a specific site, the ratio between winning state ranges and losing stat ranges across the sites wasn't significant.

tiratrocos
10-28-2009, 10:10 AM
Thank you for your answer. Guess it was my bad not saying I was playing full ring. :o


What starting hand chart are you referring to? 8% is 22+/AQ+. If you are referring to the LB chart, the chart recommends 16.4% from EP. These are general guidelines.

Indeed it is 16.4% for 6-max, sorry not mentioning I was playing full ring. Also I reconfirmed and the LB starting hand refers to 10% (22+, KQs, AJo+, ATs+) and not 8% as I stated before.

I understand these are general guidelines, but as I said (and you very well explained in your reply) being a beginner my line of thinking was to go through Leak Buster religiously and after I am playing optimally according it I pretend to adjust to my style of play (and see if I benefit or not and adjust once more).

I am mainly a STT player so I will need some time to adapt to these ranges.



While at it I just found that if I filter for Stake Level and choose FR stats or 6max stats (played only a few hands when probably a few players left the table) the BL's ranges remain the same (and are obviously meant for 6max).

I am using the stand alone version (LB 2.00.01) and when I run the same stats on LB trial integrated on HM the ranges change accordingly to FR or 6max.

In FR the PFR% range is 10-15% and in 6max 15.5-21%, as will be this difference for Early UO PFR.

Hope you guys can sort this soon and please let me know when an update will be available.

Fortunately I didn't adjust my play yet for playing FR as 6max :D

Leak Buster Support
10-28-2009, 10:07 PM
We don't support the stand alone version in this forum. You need to go to:
http://pokerzion.com/Poker_forum/forum_topics.asp?FID=112

The stand alone version should auto adjust, but if you PM me, or go to the other forum we can properly support you for that version.

tiratrocos
10-29-2009, 12:23 AM
We don't support the stand alone version in this forum. You need to go to:
http://pokerzion.com/Poker_forum/forum_topics.asp?FID=112

The stand alone version should auto adjust, but if you PM me, or go to the other forum we can properly support you for that version.

Since I am running LB along with HM and I've been told to check the Holdem Manager forums for the latest beta release I thought I could get support here.

I'll try pokerzion's forum and thank you once again for the replies.