PDA

View Full Version : Observed/Delete/Purge HH - confused!



TJD
10-15-2009, 07:24 AM
I am not sure what the current "state of play" is with this tidying up of the database.

I have my own hands of course but I also have many hands from 3 students whose play I review from time to time. I would like to keep all these HH in case I ever want to analyse them again in the future.

I also have many hands that are observed that do not include myself or these friends. I have no wish to keep these hand histories in the DB as a matter of course. However, as I retain the original observed HH files that are imported, I can always start a new database and re-import everything if eventually I decide to do more in depth analysis on specific players or do analysis "overall" via some SQL.

It seems as if I can include the stats but not save the HH by using the "Do not insert..." radio button in the Hand History management option - is this correct? If I switch this off do I still get the "full" set of information from the DB for all observed players. For example, when I have the player pop up open and choose "Known 3B Cards" - will I still see all those that I would have if I had stored the HH? If I chose "Big Hands" would I still get exactly the same data?

When I click on the "Purge Hand History Options" button, I see some useful filters but I am also a little confused. There is an option "Do not delete HH played by" and by that option shows by default (one of) my screen names. By definition if I am "playing" the hand it is not observed. Is this just a default that has no meaning? If it is there so I can retain player "X"'s HH because I find him intersting why can't I retain player "Y" and "Z" as well? (see below re alias's - would it work the same?)

How is an "observed" HH defined. Is it simply the presence of a line that says "Dealt to:" or similar. If that is the case presumably when I ask the system to delete ALL observed HH it would hopefully retain those of my students. If however, it is based on "Setup Hero names" this would not work and I would lose them.

If I understand it correctly, if I wish to "lose" these observed HH, I use this option.

There is also a "Purge hands" Option under the Options Tab. This states that these stats would be "lost" from report results but also mentions that they will still be in the HUD "for the time being". Is this correct? This sounds like "deleting" the hands. In earlier posts responded to by HEM staff a clear distinction was made between Purging and Deleting indicating that "Purging" retained stats but this tab says these hands will be "Purged".

Once again there is a "do not delete hands played by" option but how could I delete all hands played before dd/mm/yy or mm/dd/yy except those played by myself and students? I can only select ONE player here. I can understand that we might want to delete stats that are getting out of date on other players but I would want to retain several stats and quite possibly under several screen names.

I think I can see that if I set up an alias of "KEEP" with all mine and students screen names included I could prevent the deletion by excluding the KEEP name but does that work or would I find that I lost ALL my data? :)

Any chance of clearing this up for me?

TYIA

Trevor

netsrak
10-15-2009, 09:56 AM
TLDR,

here are some general hints for purging:
- the 2 purge options dont differ, they both delete handhistories and leave the stats in the database.
- For deleting only mined hands you should define an alias with all your screen names and don't delete hands from this alias.

If you have further questions please repeat them.

TJD
10-15-2009, 12:40 PM
"TLDR":(

IMO this is rude in the extreme from support staff and does HEM no credit at all.

It took me a long time to try to understand what the program did, and the questions I asked (which took a long time to formulate), were to clarify my understanding.

Each part of my post asked SPECIFIC questions where the documentation (or me) were poor enough for me to be unsure what the program does.

I do not think it is unreasonable of users to ask support wtf the program does.

I would appreciate it if you would be kind enough to do me the simple courtesy of reading my post and attempt to answer the questions I posed.

I know you are probably busy and I appreciate that perhaps my prose style is not to your liking but even so....

TYIA

Trevor

netsrak
10-15-2009, 03:33 PM
Sorry but i was a little bit in a hurry.

Ok i try to answer more deeply. If you would at least use 1., 2., .. it would be much easier to refer.


I am not sure what the current "state of play" is with this tidying up of the database.

I have my own hands of course but I also have many hands from 3 students whose play I review from time to time. I would like to keep all these HH in case I ever want to analyse them again in the future.

Create an alias which contains your nicks and your students nicks and don't delete hands from this alias.




I also have many hands that are observed that do not include myself or these friends. I have no wish to keep these hand histories in the DB as a matter of course. However, as I retain the original observed HH files that are imported, I can always start a new database and re-import everything if eventually I decide to do more in depth analysis on specific players or do analysis "overall" via some SQL.

It seems as if I can include the stats but not save the HH by using the "Do not insert..." radio button in the Hand History management option - is this correct? If I switch this off do I still get the "full" set of information from the DB for all observed players. For example, when I have the player pop up open and choose "Known 3B Cards" - will I still see all those that I would have if I had stored the HH? If I chose "Big Hands" would I still get exactly the same data?

To make this sure you should import the hands in full mode and purge them after the imports. Then you will keep the relevant informations.




When I click on the "Purge Hand History Options" button, I see some useful filters but I am also a little confused. There is an option "Do not delete HH played by" and by that option shows by default (one of) my screen names. By definition if I am "playing" the hand it is not observed. Is this just a default that has no meaning? If it is there so I can retain player "X"'s HH because I find him intersting why can't I retain player "Y" and "Z" as well? (see below re alias's - would it work the same?)

This setting is the default to make sure you don't delete your own hands by failure
As i mentioned before retaining hands for several players can be done by an alias.



How is an "observed" HH defined. Is it simply the presence of a line that says "Dealt to:" or similar. If that is the case presumably when I ask the system to delete ALL observed HH it would hopefully retain those of my students. If however, it is based on "Setup Hero names" this would not work and I would lose them.

If I understand it correctly, if I wish to "lose" these observed HH, I use this option.

Observed hands in this option are hands where the selected player is not involved. So it would delete your students hands.



There is also a "Purge hands" Option under the Options Tab. This states that these stats would be "lost" from report results but also mentions that they will still be in the HUD "for the time being". Is this correct? This sounds like "deleting" the hands. In earlier posts responded to by HEM staff a clear distinction was made between Purging and Deleting indicating that "Purging" retained stats but this tab says these hands will be "Purged".

Once again there is a "do not delete hands played by" option but how could I delete all hands played before dd/mm/yy or mm/dd/yy except those played by myself and students? I can only select ONE player here. I can understand that we might want to delete stats that are getting out of date on other players but I would want to retain several stats and quite possibly under several screen names.

I think I can see that if I set up an alias of "KEEP" with all mine and students screen names included I could prevent the deletion by excluding the KEEP name but does that work or would I find that I lost ALL my data? :)


Its the same functionality as the Purge we discussed before (this is an error in the documentation).


Please come back if you need further help.

TJD
10-16-2009, 06:40 AM
TY,

The way you describe it there is no specific option to delete "Observed HH" because there is no defintion in HEM of what makes an "Observed HH".

The confusing thing for me is that there are TWO delete/purge routines

1) is under Options/Observed HH Config/Purge HH Options

This routine allows me to choose based on showdowns, saw flop and pot size but NOT by stakes

2) is under Options/Purge Hands

This routine allows stakes to be selected but not the other filters mentioned above.

Both routines allow name (or alias), sites, dates and whether it is cash/touney

In your reply you seem to be saying that in BOTH cases I need to create the alias to keep the HH I want.

Can you see now where the confusion arose for me?

1) appears to be talking about purge/delete OBSERVED HH because of the location in the menu tree which implies that 2) does NOT deal with observed HH :)

If these 2 routines do EXACTLY the same thing but with slightly different filters so both routines will delete observed and non observed hands would it not make sense to simply have ONE routine that deals with this?

Or have I misunderstood again?

What follows I know you have mentioned but I still do not understand. Are stats retained in both versions; neither version or are they different? If they are not different do we need 2 routines?

1) says "Please note, this does not remove any of the stats"
2) says "will no longer be included in report results" and goes on to say "will still appear in HUD results for the time being"

If this is correct then it implies that there IS a difference between PURGE and DELETE which as I explained in my original post used to be the HEM stance on this.

If THIS version is true then we do need 2 routines but once again burying one inside the "Observed " tree makes no sense if HEM does not differentiate between observed and non observed hands. Instead under "Options", 2 menu items of "Remove HH but not stats" and "Delete HH and stats" make more sense. This is because if I understand your explanation these routines do not just remove observed HH they remove anything not excluded via the "Do not delete.... " option

Cheers

Trevor

PS has the HUD cache rebuilder been fixed so that deleted hands do not appear?

netsrak
10-16-2009, 08:59 AM
I'll forward it to the support manager for a more specific answer.

fabio
10-16-2009, 09:03 AM
Options -> Observed Hand History is for new hands that you will import. If there are no holecards shown in a hand, they are observed hands.

Options -> Purge is for hands that are already in your database

TJD
10-18-2009, 08:34 AM
Options -> Observed Hand History is for new hands that you will import. If there are no holecards shown in a hand, they are observed hands.

Options -> Purge is for hands that are already in your database

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Before you read the rest that I did several hours ago, I may have found the crux of my problem.

Options -> Observed Hand History has a button "Purge Hand History Options". When I select it I get a window that has the title "Purge Observed Hand Histories". Should the word "Observed" in the title be there? If it should not there everything makes a lot more sense. The instructions in the manual on PP 109 & 110 seem to indicate that these routines remove all HH that are not filtered by the parameters or excluded by the "Do not delete hands played by" (whether observed or not!)

If the answers to the following statements/questions are all yes I have it cracked. Could you please confirm these for me so we can put this to bed:)

1) The import routine takes all data from the HH and puts them into fields in tables. All of this data is available whether the HH is stored or not. i.e. even if I select "Do not insert any HH", the import routine will still read the data and store any known 3B hands and these would be available from the "All Active Players" window (or any other report). The only thing the import routine would not do is store the HH.

2) HH that are NOT observed i.e. my own or my students where the poker client writes our hole cards are stored by default in the HEM database.

3) The "Purge Observed Hand Histories" dialog does not affect any stats at all it simply removes the HH from the database allowing us to reduce it in size

4) Despite the windows title it WILL remove HH that are not observed if they meet the criteria unless I use an alias and the "Do not delete..." option for those I wish to keep.

5) The "Purge Hands" routine will not only remove the HH if they exist in the database but will also remove data from the statistics. Once again this is based on the filters I use and whether I select an alias to protect data. In other words if I chose the date filter to end Dec 31 2008 and selected an alias to protect then I would then be left with a database that only had statistics for 2009 for the un-protected players.

6) In order to achieve the above HEM does NOT need the original HH; it simply deducts totals from the fields in the DB if any hand was played before the cut-off date. If a hand is deleted its fields (including the HH if it exists) will be removed from the DB after the deductions are actioned.

7) This routine would not remove any HH or data that does not meet the criteria.

8) Despite removing the stats from the database the HUD will act as if they still exist (making the whole exercise a bit pointless really:))

If I have all these right then I understand how things work. Please let me know and if all 8 are OK ignore what follows.

TYIA

Trevor

__________________________________________________ ___________


I understand that we can preselect for hands that WILL be imported on the dialog that comes up under Options -> Observed Hand History. However, that dialog has a button that says "Purge Hand History Options" so that is clearly NOT for hands we have not yet imported. Once again this is a reply that confuses!:(

As I have pointed out in my posts it is not clear (to me) why TWO purge possibilities exist.

Does this one ONLY purge those hands that are filtered AND observed and , if so, and your definition of "If there are no holecards shown in a hand, they are observed hands" is correct how can pre-selecting one of my screen names have any meaning because my hands WILL have holecards shown.

Equally, when I asked what I needed to do to protect my student's hands if I wanted to delete old observed HH I was told that I needed to create an alias BUT all these student hands will have holecards of course and now you tell me that a "non-observed" hand is one with holecards. On that basis IF this purge only purges observed hands I should NOT need an alias. However, if this purge deletes all hands selected whether observed or not then why on earth is it stuck under the observed HH option?? It makes no sense!

This is very confusing and I would like to get a clear unambiguos answer before I try some purges (or are they deletes??) in case I totally f** up my database.

I am not an idiot and I have tried very hard to make sense of what documentation there is and the answers I have been given. I realise that if YOU know how something works then, when you look at the information you produce, it makes sense to YOU. However, I believe you need to step back and truly try to look at this stuff as if you a person who does not understand it and see whether what is written is obvious - to me it is not.

Equally it may be hard for me to explain to you exactly where I am confused (because as you already know what it does my questions may seem silly) and that is why these posts are so long and time consuming (for me).

Each and every line I have written in my previous posts and the beginning of this one is to try to point out an area in the documentation/reply that creates confusion. If each and every line were replied to by trying to answer the specific questions or comment raised I know it would be time consuming for you but it would be very helpful to me and would also, hopefully, allow you to understand how this confusion has arisen. It should enable you to re-write the documentation so that there is no future confusion.

Please help

TYIA

Trevor

PS I'll offer you a deal. If you can explain all this to me so that I understand, I will write a SHORT (as possible) documentation about the Purge/Delete options in HEM. I will send it to you and you can decide if I have got it right. If I have, it means I finally understand - hurrah! You are then free to use what I send you. Why will it be SHORT - because there will be no confusion and I can I precis as good as the next guy :)

PPS I'll even add a further free deal for you. I will promise to act as unpaid support for this FAQ. You can call it the "Definitive Purge/Delete Thread" or whatever the heck you like. If anyone needs to ask a question it is because I have failed to document it properly and I will reply and update the FAQ if required to make it clearer. I'll do this until you change its function when you can take over.

Deal?:)

trevor

PPPS - if you would rather continue the process of enlightening me outside of the forum pleae feel free to reply by email.

Cheers

t

Rvg72
10-19-2009, 01:24 PM
Hi Trevor, I will get back to you on this. We're just a bit overloaded right now with these false virus alerts a few anti virus programs are warning people about. I need to go through the purging in detail because I know there are a couple of issues and I want to make sure I get everything answered correctly

Thanks,
Roy

Rvg72
11-09-2009, 07:55 PM
Options -> Observed Hand History has a button "Purge Hand History Options". When I select it I get a window that has the title "Purge Observed Hand Histories". Should the word "Observed" in the title be there? If it should not there everything makes a lot more sense.

It should not and the word Observed has now been removed in 1.09.01



1) The import routine takes all data from the HH and puts them into fields in tables. All of this data is available whether the HH is stored or not. i.e. even if I select "Do not insert any HH", the import routine will still read the data and store any known 3B hands and these would be available from the "All Active Players" window (or any other report). The only thing the import routine would not do is store the HH.

2) HH that are NOT observed i.e. my own or my students where the poker client writes our hole cards are stored by default in the HEM database.

3) The "Purge Observed Hand Histories" dialog does not affect any stats at all it simply removes the HH from the database allowing us to reduce it in size

4) Despite the windows title it WILL remove HH that are not observed if they meet the criteria unless I use an alias and the "Do not delete..." option for those I wish to keep.



Yes to all


5) The "Purge Hands" routine will not only remove the HH if they exist in the database but will also remove data from the statistics. Once again this is based on the filters I use and whether I select an alias to protect data. In other words if I chose the date filter to end Dec 31 2008 and selected an alias to protect then I would then be left with a database that only had statistics for 2009 for the un-protected players.

It does not remove stats from the players tab and hud but it does from everywhere else


6) In order to achieve the above HEM does NOT need the original HH; it simply deducts totals from the fields in the DB if any hand was played before the cut-off date. If a hand is deleted its fields (including the HH if it exists) will be removed from the DB after the deductions are actioned.

No, it doesn't remove stats from the cached player stats used by the players tab and hud


7) This routine would not remove any HH or data that does not meet the criteria.

8) Despite removing the stats from the database the HUD will act as if they still exist (making the whole exercise a bit pointless really:))


It is only useful for overall DB space saving

Roy

_Loki_
11-24-2009, 08:40 PM
If so, try the other OPTIONS--->Observed Hand History Configuration--->Purge Hand History Options. It's more advanced and it will keep the $Won outcome of all the hands in your graphs


Is this in the manual ? I'm confused by this purging function

What is left when you purge hands in the two different ways available ?

Please can you list what you lose & what you keep

netsrak
11-25-2009, 04:25 AM
I think its all explained in this thread.