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View Full Version : EV line in multiway pots.



Smileyphil
10-08-2009, 06:06 PM
I have noticed that the allin EV is not correct if one player is all in and other players are not all in.

Example:
<html><head><title>Hand converted with Elephant 0.69 by PokerStrategy.com</title></head><body><font style="font-family: Tahoma;">&nbsp;<a href="edit:commentGeneral">(Comment)</a><br /><b>Known players:</b> (<a href="http://www.pokerstrategy.com/en/articles/182/?referer=grabem_hand">?</a>)<br /><table><tr><td><table><tr><td align=left width='25px'><font size=-1>vp$ip</font></td><td align=center width='25px'><font size=-1>BBvsSteal</font></td><td align=center width='25px'><font size=-1>ORL</font></td><td align=right width='25px'><font size=-1>RaisePreflop</font></td></tr><tr><td colspan=4 align=center style='border-style:solid; border-width:thin; border-color: #000000'><b>Position</b>:&nbsp;Stack</td></tr><tr><td align=left width='25px'><font size=-1>AF</font></td><td align=center width='25px'><font size=-1>W$SD</font></td><td align=center width='25px'><font size=-1>WTS</font></td><td align=right width='25px'><font size=-1>hands</font></td></tr></table></td><td width=35px></td><td><table><tr><td align=left width='25px'><font size=-1></font></td><td align=center width='25px'><font size=-1></font></td><td align=center width='25px'><font size=-1></font></td><td align=right width='25px'><font size=-1></font></td></tr><tr><td colspan=4 align=center style='border-style:solid; border-width:thin; border-color: #000000'><b>Hero</b>:&nbsp;$3.35</td></tr><tr><td align=left width='25px'><font size=-1></font></td><td align=center width='25px'><font size=-1></font></td><td align=center width='25px'><font size=-1></font></td><td align=right width='25px'><font size=-1></font></td></tr></table></td><td width=35px></td><td><table><tr><td align=left width='25px'><font size=-1>27 </font></td><td align=center width='25px'><font size=-1>100 </font></td><td align=center width='25px'><font size=-1>33 </font></td><td align=right width='25px'><font size=-1>18 </font></td></tr><tr><td colspan=4 align=center style='border-style:solid; border-width:thin; border-color: #000000'><b>MP1</b>:&nbsp;$13.20</td></tr><tr><td align=left width='25px'><font size=-1>2.6</font></td><td align=center width='25px'><font size=-1>100 </font></td><td align=center width='25px'><font size=-1>13 </font></td><td align=right width='25px'><font size=-1>62</font></td></tr></table></td><td width=35px></td><td><table><tr><td align=left width='25px'><font size=-1>36 </font></td><td align=center width='25px'><font size=-1>-</font></td><td align=center width='25px'><font size=-1>0 </font></td><td align=right width='25px'><font size=-1>17 </font></td></tr><tr><td colspan=4 align=center style='border-style:solid; border-width:thin; border-color: #000000'><b>CO</b>:&nbsp;$10.00</td></tr><tr><td align=left width='25px'><font size=-1>2.9</font></td><td align=center width='25px'><font size=-1>63 </font></td><td align=center width='25px'><font size=-1>40 </font></td><td align=right width='25px'><font size=-1>58</font></td></tr></table></td><td width=35px></td></tr></table><br /><b> 0.1/0.25 No-Limit Hold'em <font color=#0000cc>(9 handed)</font></b><br /><i><font size=-1>Hand recorder used for this <a href="http://www.pokerstrategy.com/en/about/?referer=grabem_hand">poker</a> hand: <a href="http://www.pokerstrategy.com/en/about/?referer=grabem_hand">Elephant 0.69</a> by <a href="http://www.pokerstrategy.com/en/about/?referer=grabem_hand">www.pokerstrategy.com</a>.</font></i><br /><br /><b>Preflop:</b> Hero is SB with A<img src="http://www.pokerstrategy.com/smilies/spade.png">, Q<img src="http://www.pokerstrategy.com/smilies/heart.png">&nbsp;<a href="edit:commentPreflop">(Comment)</a><br /><i><font color=#a0a0a0>2 folds</font></i>, <font color=red>MP1 raises to $0.50</font>, <i><font color=#a0a0a0>2 folds</font></i>, CO calls $0.50, <i><font color=#a0a0a0>BU folds</font></i>, <font color=red>Hero raises to $3.35 (All-In)</font>, <i><font color=#a0a0a0>BB folds</font></i>, MP1 calls $2.85, CO calls $2.85.<br /><br /><b>Flop:</b> ($10.30) Q<img src="http://www.pokerstrategy.com/smilies/diamond.png">, A<img src="http://www.pokerstrategy.com/smilies/heart.png">, K<img src="http://www.pokerstrategy.com/smilies/club.png"> <font color=#0000cc>(2 players)</font>&nbsp;<a href="edit:commentFlop">(Comment)</a><br />MP1 checks, <font color=red>CO bets $1.00</font>, MP1 calls $1.00.<br /><br /><b>Turn:</b> ($12.30) K<img src="http://www.pokerstrategy.com/smilies/heart.png"> <font color=#0000cc>(2 players)</font>&nbsp;<a href="edit:commentTurn">(Comment)</a><br />MP1 checks, <font color=red>CO bets $1.50</font>, MP1 calls $1.50.<br /><br /><b>River:</b> ($15.30) 6<img src="http://www.pokerstrategy.com/smilies/heart.png"> <font color=#0000cc>(3 players)</font>&nbsp;<a href="edit:commentRiver">(Comment)</a><br />MP1 checks, <font color=red>CO bets $4.15 (All-In)</font>, MP1 calls $4.15.<br /><br /><b>Final Pot:</b> $23.60<br /><br /><b>Results follow (highlight to see):</b><br />Hero shows two pairs, aces and kings (As Qh)<br />MP1 shows a full-house, sixes full of kings (6d 6c)<br />CO shows a straight, ace high (Td Jc)<br /><br />MP1 wins with a full-house, sixes full of kings (6d 6c)<br /><br />&nbsp;<a href="edit:commentEnd">(Comment)</a></font></body></html>

In this hand you can see that the hero is allin preflop. The chance of winning is 36.5% so the Allin EV should be roughly breakeven (slightly positive) however the calculated Allin EV is the value where the chance of winning is 0% (as if hero wasn't all in before the river)

This only seems to be the case in situations where other players are not Allin.

Edit: Not sure if this really counts as a "Bug" as such.

fozzy71
10-09-2009, 12:38 AM
http://www.holdemmanager.net/forum/showthread.php?t=17621&highlight=equity

http://www.holdemmanager.net/forum/showthread.php?t=18031&highlight=equity

Smileyphil
10-09-2009, 10:01 AM
Sorry didn't see that.

Interesting idea. Is it possible for us to manually reset the EV on individual hands and reimport them into the database so that our EV line resembles a more accurate impression of our play?

It would be feasible since this situation doesn't happen too often.

netsrak
10-09-2009, 10:50 AM
Please suggest it in the uservoice system (link in my signature).