When do you stop?

[Arizona Willie]

If you're not doing well when do you stop?

Do you stop when you lose 1 buyin?

Do you buy more chips and keep going?

Do you just quit that table and go to another?

Do you have a loss limit where you stop playing and go do something else?

I've started quitting if I lose my buyin. I figure if I'm playing that badly I should just go do something else or go to another site.

When do you say enough is enough?

[_Loki_]

pokersite ? game ? stakes ? what are you buying in at ? how much $ have you got in your account at the site you use ?

I'm a winning player now, but initially I had a heavy $'s nosedive & I slowed down & analysed my problems & I started again like this...

My advice is:

Learn about pot odds & implied odds
Make a plan & STICK TO IT !
Look at your bankroll size & management of it (plenty of info everywhere on this)
Play at the lowest stake available
Don't buy in for the maximum at the start - I found 50-75BB worked best for me
Play ABC & very tight - keep playing like that & don't loosen up until you're beginning to profit - it's not much fun playing like that though - persevere at being tight
Study videos & books EVERY DAY (I spent equal time studying & playing)
Don't play if you're not on top form emotionally or if you're tired
DON'T HOLD ON TO BAD CARDS WAITING FOR A MIRACLE

I hope this helps
Michael

[Arizona Willie]

I do a lot of the things you mentioned, Michael.

I started playing a lot of micro at .1/ .2 NLHE and found it almost impossible to gain ground.

As it says in a lot of posts, people just don't lay a hand down there, not enough money to concern them.

Then I tried .2/ .5 and it wasn't any different.

When I went up to .5/.10 then I began to see people acting a bit like the videos and tutorials say they should. They would actually fold when I bet 3 BB from the button, sometimes.

I'm learning slow but surely, I hope.

I was just asking what people use as a limit when they are having a bad day / run.

When do they call it quits and walk away?

Is my self imposed limit of losing the buyin good?
Or is that being too cheap?

I play on Ft and PS for whatever difference it makes. Have approx the same results both places.

[_Loki_]

Hi Arizona


I started playing a lot of micro at .1/ .2 NLHE and found it almost impossible to gain ground. As it says in a lot of posts, people just don't lay a hand down there, not enough money to concern them. Then I tried .2/ .5 and it wasn't any different

This is true - I agree with you about the behaviour of players at the bottom of microstakes, but it isn't just the cost of losing isn't painful enough for them - it's also because many players there do not have a clue about the basic stuff... as far as they are concerned any two cards can win. And in principle they are correct.

I think the vast majority of players there for example...

Do not realise that to improve a pair to a set/trips after the flop they are waiting for 1 of 2 cards amongst 47. Surely though you can exploit this lack of knowledge ? OK - they will get lucky, but on average you should be miles ahead. Just tighten up against the happy-go-lucky crew & kill them.

I really do not want to play at a table where everyone knows the value of their cards. The experts rules on pot odds & implied odds & EV are pretty meaningless against maniacs. Just fold, fold, fold until you've got the magic cards & then take their whole stack. If you find someone keeps betting back at you & they are very loose then grit your teeth & keep pushing - if you've got the cards. No problem. Usually :)


I was just asking what people use as a limit when they are having a bad day / run.
When do they call it quits and walk away?
Is my self imposed limit of losing the buyin good?
Or is that being too cheap?

I think you are constraining yourself with rules when maybe you should free yourself from concern about short-term losses. If I'm fresh & in form then I don't stop playing just because I'm losing. Losing one buy-in is irrelevant to me because I've got 3,500BB's in my account. If I don't lose my entire stack 2-3 times during a 4-hour session then I feel that I've been playing too tight.

I do buy-in a bit short though at 75BB & that's not a big loss. If I double up & the table is still running hot with fish then I rebuy to the max & exploit the loose tendancies there.

TABLE SELECTION: My primary tactic is I will not sit at a table unless the Ave plyrs/flop is 55-60% or more & I leave when there's two seats empty or the play tightens or the fish are broke or I'm broke.

I stay at a table for an average of around 15 minutes. My range in the past 24 hours has been 3mins to 38mins. I play only 4 tables at a time. Actually if I'm taking losses at a table it often pays to hang around there - I'm now a player that everyone wants to bet into

What do you think ? How does my attitude compare with yours ?

Regards
Michael

[Arizona Willie]

I've deposited $50 a couple of times and nursed it along for a couple of months before tapping out. Last time I put in $100 and still have about $90 but mainly because of the Take 2 promotion on FT. I didn't start that at the beginning then realized I was passing up a good thing and picked up $25.

So right now my BR stands at only 900 BB.

I started buying in at the max buy-in and noticed people buying in at the min buyin were doing just fine. So I went to the min buy-in myself and for awhile it was ok. Last few days though I've been getting killed and losing my $4 in 30 - 40 hands. Terrible. Usually I would play for 100 - 200 hands before deciding to leave. Rarely lost entire stack. I've been having hands where Tournament Indicator would say I had a 98% chance of winning and getting beat again and again and again. Full house is worthless for me lately. So I bail when I lose my stack. Figure it isn't my day.

But I see that if I resumed the max buyin I might not have lost the entire stack ... then again the way my play / luck has been ....

But Holdem Manager tells me that I've had - EV for those sessions and most of the time lost less than it thinks I should have ... except for yesterday. Really bad play on my part.

I try to stay with tables with a high plr/flp ratio and also try to check out who is playing before joining the table. I figure if someone is sitting at the .5/.10 table with a $32.49 stack there's a big shark there and not a good place for me to be. I also try to find tables where the average stack is well below the max buyin of $10. Figure they are either conservative players or losing so possible good fishing grounds.

Unfortunately, during the day, there aren't that many .5/.10 tables. That makes it difficult to pick my spot and to change tables frequently.

I only play 2 tables at a time in order to concentrate and observe the other players better.

I do stay at the table too long though I think. I start out pretty good usually and win a bit and then after awhile it seems like I lose most back if not more.
Lately been losing entire stack real fast. Bah. All-in sucks. No more. I'm getting gun-shy about all-in now having lost so many that I shouldn't have.

I realize it's just a bad streak but it sure is aggravating and makes me want to quit entirely somedays.

But, perhaps I need to not be so stingy and use a bigger buy-in. Min buy-in is real easy to lose it all. Only takes one or two bad hands.

It's funny, I can go to the casino and buy-in for $100 and if I lose $50 it's no big deal. Doesn't bother me at all. But to lose a few bucks online bugs the heck out of me. Don't like losing either place, but for some unknown reason, losing online is worse even though it's a lot less.

They say golf is the most frustrating game but I think it might be poker.

[_Loki_]

Hi Arizona

What'a the worst pocket cards you will play in certain positions? I play 6-max NLHE only & the below are my worst hands though I may open up if I'm still playing 10 mins later

UTG + = T9s/KQo
UTG + 1 = 98s/KSo
CO = 76s/JTo
BTN = 54s/QJo

I find a strong kicker is essential so on the BTN for example the worst Ace I play offsuit is A7o


Curiousity questions:
Can you use Tournament indicator AND HM HUD at the same time in online play ?
Do you play a lot of tournies then ?

Michael

[scar3face]

pokersite ? game ? stakes ? what are you buying in at ? how much $ have you got in your account at the site you use ?

I'm a winning player now, but initially I had a heavy $'s nosedive & I slowed down & analysed my problems & I started again like this...

My advice is:

Learn about pot odds & implied odds
Make a plan & STICK TO IT !
Look at your bankroll size & management of it (plenty of info everywhere on this)
Play at the lowest stake available
Don't buy in for the maximum at the start - I found 50-75BB worked best for me
Play ABC & very tight - keep playing like that & don't loosen up until you're beginning to profit - it's not much fun playing like that though - persevere at being tight
Study videos & books EVERY DAY (I spent equal time studying & playing)
Don't play if you're not on top form emotionally or if you're tired
DON'T HOLD ON TO BAD CARDS WAITING FOR A MIRACLE

I hope this helps
Michael

Some good advice there.

[_Loki_]

Cheers scar3face :)

It's just the stuff from books that helped me stop leaking all over the floor

I think the biggest thing I'm doing now that's different is being v v patient - waiting for the right cards & the right fish to happen at the same time !

Oh yes & learning to fold AA etc when the board is bad - I can fold cards & feel nothing now - I just wait for the next juicy fruit & count my $'s

Michael

[Arizona Willie]

Obviously I play stupid cards :)

Although I try to not play anything OOP except Group I cards.

But I often find it impossible to resist the temptation to play any two face cards or pocket pairs. At least enough to see the flop.

Yesterday I bumped up my buyin to the max $10. For awhile it went ok. Doing fine just sailing along. Up a buck or two on one table down a buck on the other.

Then >>> we all know what's coming -- right? <<<<<

I had a full house 6's / 8's .. pretty good? Nawww .. hell no. Got beat by full house 6's / K's. Cost me $3.40

So I was thinking to myself ... well if I had been playing min buyin I would be pretty much outta here .. but I got plenty to keep playing. No problem.

13 hands later on the same table ...

What happens?

Of course it did.

Full house A's / 2's beaten by A's / 8's ... cost me $9.60 and I was done for the day.

2 full houses beaten on the same table within 13 hands.

I don't play poker .... I play howfastcanigiveitaway. :mad: :mad: :mad:

I checked the session in HM and was spot on the EV. Lost $11.57 and the $(EV adjusted ) was -11.57 and the bb/100 was -87.65 and the EV bb/100 was -87.65 so apparently HM thinks I played the hands right but was just doomed.

Out of 132 hands I had 11 hands where I lost more than the BB and 10 hands where I won more than .5.
Unfortunately 2 of the losers were BIG losers and none of the winners were near as big, max win was $2.00.
Had one tie where I actually lost .04. How does that happen? Split the pot and wind up losing? Started with $11.09 and after the split I had $11.05!!

I think Lady Luck is telling me she has divorced me. :) :)

[_Loki_]

Hi Arizona

Can you answer this from two posts ago please ?

Curiousity questions:
Can you use Tournament indicator AND HM HUD at the same time in online play ?
Do you play a lot of tournies then ?

************************************************


But I often find it impossible to resist the temptation to play any two face cards or pocket pairs. At least enough to see the flop

This is fatal play in CASH poker - position is absolutely everything !! Really you should only be raising, re-raising or folding preflop & leave calling/limping to the monkeys. You have to be very aggressive on selected hands & forget the rest. Stick to an opening hands plan for a while... In the SB for example:

1] If raised before me I fold EVERYTHING until I know my table. Or go ALL IN with AA-AT,AK,KK
2] If limped to me I RAISE these hands 6 to 10 BB's & FOLD the rest:
AKs,AQs,AJs,KQs
AKo,AQo
AA - 99
3] If folded to me I RAISE by at least 4BB's a wide range of hands similar to BTN play


I had a full house 6's / 8's .. pretty good? Nawww .. hell no. Got beat by full house 6's / K's. Cost me $3.40

Full house A's / 2's beaten by A's / 8's ... cost me $9.60 and I was done for the day

Have a look at those two hands again:
What were you & the op holding & in what position ?
What was the flop & how much did it cost to see the flop ?

PM me your email address & I'll send you some good stuff - you will win using it. I promise :)

Michael

[Trias]

I usually quit when:
a) I get bored. Unfortunately this happens a lot - I can't play longer than 2-3 hours (and 3 hours is really long for me) per session
b) I feel I'm about to start breaking things ;)
Other than that, it doesn't matter if I'm winning or losing (although when I'm winning a lot I often feel that I want to quit very soon, as if I had a subconscious fear that I'm going to lose what I've won - it sucks, but sometimes I can't help it) - as long as the game is good and I feel I'm playing well.

[_Loki_]

I usually quit when:
a) I get bored. Unfortunately this happens a lot - I can't play longer than 2-3 hours (and 3 hours is really long for me) per session
b) I feel I'm about to start breaking things ;)
Other than that, it doesn't matter if I'm winning or losing (although when I'm winning a lot I often feel that I want to quit very soon, as if I had a subconscious fear that I'm going to lose what I've won - it sucks, but sometimes I can't help it) - as long as the game is good and I feel I'm playing well.

Trias you ain't hungry enough :)

I think a 3 hour session is good - much more than me - I can't play well that long - I just lose my judgement

6 days a week I do this:
45 mins of 4 tables & I count that as a session.
I do 5 sessions a day with at least 1/2 hour break between
2-3 hours poker study

It works out at 35k-40k hands per month

It's a lot like work, but without the commuting & the silly suit/tie thing & no UK tax on poker profits :)

Michael

[Ripsnort760]

Loki,

You can use TI and HEM at the same time. Lately though I have been using only TI for SNG's or MTT's and import HH data into HEM later on. The info I need for these games at the micro stakes I play is minimal (mainly player profiles, mzones, and pot odds). I use HEM HUD's for cash games.

Rip

[_Loki_]

Loki ...you can use TI and HEM at the same time. Lately though I have been using only TI for SNG's or MTT's and import HH data into HEM later on. Rip

Hi Rip ~ Thanks

Are you SAYING that you can have the TI HUD & HM HUD attached to tables at the same time if you wanted ?

Can both HUDs work at once if you multitable ?

I ask because the same company does *Hold'em Indicator* which also does that clever pot odds stuff & I think *HI* is aimed at cash games

BTW... HM HUD is what I use for cash games too. I have it reversed so my HUD view shows only the stats for since I joined the table. I can tell which players I've got history on only because there's a fish, whale etc icon against them right away. Works better for me that way round

Regards
Michael

[Ripsnort760]

Are you SAYING that you can have the TI HUD & HM HUD attached to tables at the same time if you wanted ? Can both HUDs work at once if you multitable ?.

TI doesn't use a HUD. Just the window that attaches to each table. Yes, you can multitable with both at the same time. Information overload at that point though, IMO.:eek:


BTW... HM HUD is what I use for cash games too. I have it reversed so my HUD view shows only the stats for since I joined the table.

How do you set that up?

To the original question, when to stop, I'm still struggling with this. For cash games timed sessions sound like a good idea. Up to now I've been deciding to stop when I can tell I'm not making good decisions, eg. I know I'm beat but continue on with hands anyway. This usually occurs when I'm tired of course. Playing SNG or MTT, playing my "A" game I will usually run deep. But the times when it ain't happening, as soon as I think I'm tilting (too many bad beats) I'll stop for the day. BTW, I play micro stakes.

Rip

[Seb]

If you're not doing well when do you stop?

When do you say enough is enough?

After 2 broken mice or one broken monitor. :)

[Dasher]

When to stop, according to Tommy Angelo, is where you're no longer playing your A game. Could be because you're tired, distracted or something that happened on or off the table. It doesn't matter if you're ahead or behind. He also thinks that some people need a stop loss and some don't.

But one buyin isn't enough. You could easily lose your stack and it doesn't mean that you played it badly. It's just varience. I tried three buyins for awhile and that worked for me. So just try to figure out what works for you. A time limit might be best is the problem is you get tired, as opposed to setting a dollar amount. But any time you feel your judgement is clouded, thats quitting time.