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Olaf
12-29-2011, 09:40 PM
This is my Turn Range Page.

42881

If player have this Range on SD or Won without Showdown(impicit strength) - this is Succes, other - opposite.

So in my HM1 NC make note like PR, OOP, Flop Bet, Turn check - Strong Hand (4/15 26%) - 1 Was Imlicit, 3 other - Powerful hands and draw

So now i know that he usually have weak hand when Flop CB, turn - check.


Now i want the same with Turn > Range > General strength, but i recieve incomprehensible to me results .

I simply add General Strength Minimum 70. Maximum 0.

On strong hands Seek show me - "OPPORTUNITY, Turn strengh too high"??
When Hero fold Seek show SUCCESS,
and sometimes SEEK show me "OPPORTUNITY, Flop action contained ....... which was not in list of acceptable actions"! (Flop > Action > "All action perfomed must be selected" is ticked, General > Define opportunities by range

When i make Strength Minimum 70, Strength Maximum 100 i recieve as SUCCESS - Hero Monster hands and Folded hands. As Opportunity - Weak hands and "Flop action contained ....... which was not in list of acceptable actions"

What am I mistaken, please, help me.

Olaf
12-30-2011, 01:22 PM
Guys, please, help me. What i'm doing wrong with that General Strength? :(

sreticentv
12-30-2011, 09:11 PM
it's too hard to provide assistance unless you post both a definition and a sample hand history

Olaf
12-30-2011, 09:56 PM
it's too hard to provide assistance unless you post both a definition and a sample hand history


I think it just my lack of understanding of principles of work, which is easy to explain, but OK :)

My aim was to see, which kind of hands Hero have When OOP, CB Flop and check Turn.

Below There are 15 hands, whick give me 6/9 with my Definition (6 hands quite strong, others 9 - no)



As only I switch on General Strenght Minimum for example 60 or 70, minimum leave 0, I recieve strange results, as I described above. When i set General Str. Min 70, Max 100 - i recieve Other strange result.

I absolutely do not understand how this can be: "OPPORTUNITY, Turn strengh too high" when Strength minimum is 70, or "Flop action contained....."

Ty, Sreti

nilaynilay
12-31-2011, 12:18 AM
paste one hand at a time and write comments on it. for ex

hand1 opp turn strength too high

hand 2 flop action contained

hand 3 weird result (describe why)

we can try and explain the results or debug if needed

Olaf
12-31-2011, 01:46 AM
paste one hand at a time and write comments on it. for ex

hand1 opp turn strength too high

hand 2 flop action contained

hand 3 weird result (describe why)

we can try and explain the results or debug if needed


HERO - HateMeeAgain


Minimum Strength 70, Maximum (Void)

Hands 20 (12/8) (Results incorrect - Strenght Hand are OPP, when HERO Fold - SUCESS)


1) OPP turn strength to high


***** History for hand R5-189728546-500 *****
Start hand: Mon Nov 07 08:48:00 GMT 2011
Table: Zagreb [189728546] (NO_LIMIT TEXAS_HOLDEM $0.50/$1, Real money)
Button: seat 2
Players in Round: 5
Seat 2: zak_moglis ($202.81)
Seat 4: Ibballer1982 ($34.0)
Seat 5: Bazinga314 ($116.61)
Seat 8: HateMeeAgain ($114.06)
Seat 10: pavlosss4 ($109.56)
Ibballer1982 posts small blind ($0.50)
Bazinga314 posts big blind ($1)
---
Dealing pocket cards
HateMeeAgain raises $3.0 to $3.0
pavlosss4 folds
zak_moglis calls $3.0
Ibballer1982 folds
Bazinga314 folds
--- Dealing flop [Tc, Ks, 3s]
HateMeeAgain bets $5.5
zak_moglis calls $5.5
--- Dealing turn [3h]
HateMeeAgain checks
zak_moglis checks
--- Dealing river [Jc]
HateMeeAgain checks
zak_moglis checks
---
Summary:
Main pot: $18.5 won by HateMeeAgain ($17.58)
Seat 2: zak_moglis ($194.31), net: -$8.5, [Jd, Td]
Seat 4: Ibballer1982 ($33.5), net: -$0.5
Seat 5: Bazinga314 ($115.61), net: -$1.0
Seat 8: HateMeeAgain ($123.14), net: +$9.08, [3c, 3d]
Seat 10: pavlosss4 ($109.56), net: -$0
***** End of hand R5-189728546-500 *****


2)SUCCESS - WHY?? He was Fold


***** History for hand R5-191448522-105 *****
Start hand: Sun Nov 13 05:04:00 GMT 2011
Table: Kota Bharu [191448522] (NO_LIMIT TEXAS_HOLDEM $0.50/$1, Real money)
Button: seat 8
Players in Round: 6
Seat 1: HateMeeAgain ($99.15)
Seat 4: DoiCromo ($158.5)
Seat 7: ...BRRRRAA ($155.2)
Seat 8: ReginaPhalan ($96.5)
Seat 9: Zocki2 ($64.49)
Seat 10: ganeaganea ($105.38)
Zocki2 posts small blind ($0.50)
ganeaganea posts big blind ($1)
---
Dealing pocket cards
HateMeeAgain raises $3.0 to $3.0
DoiCromo folds
...BRRRRAA calls $3.0
ReginaPhalan folds
Zocki2 folds
ganeaganea folds
--- Dealing flop [5s, Th, 8d]
HateMeeAgain bets $5.0
...BRRRRAA calls $5.0
--- Dealing turn [5d]
HateMeeAgain checks
...BRRRRAA bets $9.0
HateMeeAgain folds
---
Summary:
Main pot: $17.5 won by ...BRRRRAA ($16.63)
Seat 1: HateMeeAgain ($91.15), net: -$8.0
Seat 4: DoiCromo ($158.5), net: -$0
Seat 7: ...BRRRRAA ($163.83), net: +$8.63
Seat 8: ReginaPhalan ($96.5), net: -$0
Seat 9: Zocki2 ($63.99), net: -$0.5
Seat 10: ganeaganea ($104.38), net: -$1.0
***** End of hand R5-191448522-105 *****



3) flop action contained MediumBetCall which was not in the list of acceptable actions
Can't understand what this hand doing there if Flop > Action > "All action perfomed must be selected" is ticked, and "General > Define opportunities by range" is established



***** History for hand R5-189762513-81 *****
Start hand: Mon Nov 07 07:44:00 GMT 2011
Table: New York [189762513] (NO_LIMIT TEXAS_HOLDEM $0.50/$1, Real money)
Button: seat 10
Players in Round: 5
Seat 1: lourk ($99.0)
Seat 2: HateMeeAgain ($193.3)
Seat 7: evg3112 ($189.3)
Seat 9: gulash1986 ($100.53)
Seat 10: arviserd1 ($98.5)
lourk posts small blind ($0.50)
HateMeeAgain posts big blind ($1)
---
Dealing pocket cards
evg3112 calls $1.0
gulash1986 folds
arviserd1 folds
lourk folds
HateMeeAgain raises $4.0 to $5.0
evg3112 calls $4.0
--- Dealing flop [Jc, 6c, 3s]
HateMeeAgain bets $7.0
evg3112 raises $14.0 to $14.0
HateMeeAgain calls $7.0
--- Dealing turn [8s]
HateMeeAgain checks
evg3112 bets $38.5
HateMeeAgain folds
---
Summary:
Main pot: $38.5 won by evg3112 ($36.58)
Seat 1: lourk ($98.5), net: -$0.5
Seat 2: HateMeeAgain ($174.3), net: -$19.0
Seat 7: evg3112 ($206.88), net: +$17.58
Seat 9: gulash1986 ($100.53), net: -$0
Seat 10: arviserd1 ($98.5), net: -$0
***** End of hand R5-189762513-81 *****




Now, i change to:
Minimum Strength 70, Maximum Strength 100

Hands 31 (18/13) - Periodically, the correct results



1)flop action contained.....


***** History for hand R5-191984079-65 *****
Start hand: Tue Nov 15 04:13:00 GMT 2011
Table: Taichung [191984079] (NO_LIMIT TEXAS_HOLDEM $0.50/$1, Real money)
Button: seat 3
Players in Round: 5
Seat 3: gmichling ($105.14)
Seat 4: arviserd1 ($94.0)
Seat 5: chuks11 ($113.64)
Seat 6: FFantasyy ($100.0)
Seat 8: HateMeeAgain ($258.83)
arviserd1 posts small blind ($0.50)
chuks11 posts big blind ($1)
---
Dealing pocket cards
FFantasyy folds
HateMeeAgain raises $3.0 to $3.0
gmichling calls $3.0
arviserd1 folds
chuks11 folds
--- Dealing flop [Ac, 2h, 6s]
HateMeeAgain bets $5.5
gmichling raises $11.0 to $11.0
HateMeeAgain calls $5.5
--- Dealing turn [2c]
HateMeeAgain checks
gmichling bets $29.5
PLAYER_USED_TIME_BAN

HateMeeAgain calls $29.5
--- Dealing river [9h]
HateMeeAgain checks
gmichling checks
---
Summary:
Main pot: $88.5 won by HateMeeAgain ($85.5)
Seat 3: gmichling ($61.64), net: -$43.5, [7s, Ts]
Seat 4: arviserd1 ($93.5), net: -$0.5
Seat 5: chuks11 ($112.64), net: -$1.0
Seat 6: FFantasyy ($100.0), net: -$0
Seat 8: HateMeeAgain ($300.83), net: +$42.0, [Kc, As]
***** End of hand R5-191984079-65 *****




2) OPP, Turn Strength too low - OK, THIS IS RIGHT

***** History for hand R5-191911340-363 *****
Start hand: Tue Nov 15 04:20:00 GMT 2011
Table: Duedelingen [191911340] (NO_LIMIT TEXAS_HOLDEM $0.50/$1, Real money)
Button: seat 1
Players in Round: 5
Seat 1: NoeN90 ($114.74)
Seat 2: FFantasyy ($141.85)
Seat 3: chuks11 ($92.0)
Seat 4: HateMeeAgain ($155.24)
Seat 8: slevin667 ($124.96)
FFantasyy posts small blind ($0.50)
chuks11 posts big blind ($1)
---
Dealing pocket cards
HateMeeAgain raises $4.0 to $4.0
slevin667 calls $4.0
NoeN90 folds
FFantasyy folds
chuks11 folds
--- Dealing flop [8d, 5s, 4c]
HateMeeAgain bets $6.0
slevin667 calls $6.0
--- Dealing turn [Ts]
HateMeeAgain checks
slevin667 checks
--- Dealing river [3h]
HateMeeAgain checks
slevin667 checks
---
Summary:
Main pot: $21.5 won by slevin667 ($20.43)
Seat 1: NoeN90 ($114.74), net: -$0
Seat 2: FFantasyy ($141.35), net: -$0.5
Seat 3: chuks11 ($91.0), net: -$1.0
Seat 4: HateMeeAgain ($145.24), net: -$10.0, [9d, Ad]
Seat 8: slevin667 ($135.39), net: +$10.43, [7d, 7c]
***** End of hand R5-191911340-363 *****




3) SUCCESS - OK, THIS IS RIGHT TOO

***** History for hand R5-191381208-384 *****
Start hand: Sun Nov 13 05:06:00 GMT 2011
Table: Gulf Port [191381208] (NO_LIMIT TEXAS_HOLDEM $0.50/$1, Real money)
Button: seat 5
Players in Round: 5
Seat 2: HateMeeAgain ($147.76)
Seat 5: AlCarpone ($175.62)
Seat 6: 2pac187CPT ($144.53)
Seat 7: ojojxojoj ($94.78)
Seat 9: fish_royal ($121.34)
2pac187CPT posts small blind ($0.50)
ojojxojoj posts big blind ($1)
---
Dealing pocket cards
fish_royal folds
HateMeeAgain raises $3.0 to $3.0
AlCarpone calls $3.0
2pac187CPT folds
ojojxojoj folds
--- Dealing flop [Td, Ad, Ah]
HateMeeAgain bets $5.0
AlCarpone calls $5.0
--- Dealing turn [5c]
HateMeeAgain checks
AlCarpone checks
--- Dealing river [3c]
HateMeeAgain checks
AlCarpone checks
---
Summary:
Main pot: $17.5 won by HateMeeAgain ($16.63)
Seat 2: HateMeeAgain ($156.39), net: +$8.63, [Qd, Tc]
Seat 5: AlCarpone ($167.62), net: -$8.0, [Jh, 9h]
Seat 6: 2pac187CPT ($144.03), net: -$0.5
Seat 7: ojojxojoj ($93.78), net: -$1.0
Seat 9: fish_royal ($121.34), net: -$0
***** End of hand R5-191381208-384 *****




4)SUCCESS - WHY? Player was Folded

***** History for hand R5-191574296-435 *****
Start hand: Mon Nov 14 12:11:00 GMT 2011
Table: Braunau [191574296] (NO_LIMIT TEXAS_HOLDEM $0.50/$1, Real money)
Button: seat 4
Players in Round: 6
Seat 2: gulash1986 ($100.0)
Seat 3: strofodor ($141.88)
Seat 4: SmI_o ($100.0)
Seat 5: HateMeeAgain ($113.54)
Seat 8: fridasorglos ($107.87)
Seat 9: 2pac187CPT ($100.4)
HateMeeAgain posts small blind ($0.50)
fridasorglos posts big blind ($1)
---
Dealing pocket cards
PLAYER_USED_TIME_BAN

2pac187CPT folds
gulash1986 folds
strofodor calls $1.0
SmI_o folds
HateMeeAgain raises $4.5 to $5.0
fridasorglos folds
strofodor calls $4.0
--- Dealing flop [9c, 4h, Qd]
HateMeeAgain bets $7.0
strofodor calls $7.0
--- Dealing turn [4s]
HateMeeAgain checks
strofodor bets $12.5
HateMeeAgain folds
---
Summary:
Main pot: $25 won by strofodor ($23.75)
Seat 2: gulash1986 ($100.0), net: -$0
Seat 3: strofodor ($153.63), net: +$11.75
Seat 4: SmI_o ($100.0), net: -$0
Seat 5: HateMeeAgain ($101.54), net: -$12.0
Seat 8: fridasorglos ($106.87), net: -$1.0
Seat 9: 2pac187CPT ($100.4), net: -$0
***** End of hand R5-191574296-435 *****

nilaynilay
12-31-2011, 02:50 AM
42971Hand 1 is a success. i downloaded the def you attached. is it possible that you looked at the wrong player name or something?
before i check the others i want to be sure of this.

Olaf
12-31-2011, 10:28 AM
42971Hand 1 is a success. i downloaded the def you attached. is it possible that you looked at the wrong player name or something?
before i check the others i want to be sure of this.


You have included General Strenght after downloading def? I forget to Switch On that. My fault :(
without the inclusion of "General Strength" all work OK.
But, as only i tick That:

43011


43021


"CANDIDATE" ?

nilaynilay
01-02-2012, 01:05 AM
so u r saying the def u attached has gen unticked and i need to tick it? when testing i didnt make any changes to what you attached.

Olaf
01-02-2012, 07:38 AM
so u r saying the def u attached has gen unticked and i need to tick it? when testing i didnt make any changes to what you attached.


Ok, this is right.

First file with Strength 70, Maximum 0.
Second (01_PR,OOP,F_Bet,T_4k-Strong_100.xml) - Strength Min. 70, Max. 100

nilaynilay
01-03-2012, 02:04 AM
k will take a look

Olaf
01-04-2012, 09:42 AM
k will take a look


Did you remember?

nilaynilay
01-04-2012, 10:03 AM
yes ofc. i just came back from gym and have prepped out monster test pc to resolve your issue.
i was already in it actually. anyways back to work now ;)

Olaf
01-04-2012, 10:25 AM
yes ofc. i just came back from gym and have prepped out monster test pc to resolve your issue.
i was already in it actually. anyways back to work now ;)

LOL. Good luck in this difficult matter :)

nilaynilay
01-04-2012, 11:59 AM
I have found a bug. when u say max 0 it is being literally taken as 0. i changed it to 100 and hand 1 was success.

hand 2 and 3 will be fixed also with this( but we need to also wait for the implicit bug to be fixed for them)

hand 4 is returning incorrect turn hand right now due to the implicit bug.

Ok to summarize there is a bug where the 0 is being taken as a literal 0. this will be fixed and also the implicit. after that you need to check all the hands again. if any hand is still giving you strange results repost them and the def also

Olaf
01-06-2012, 10:34 PM
Ok to summarize there is a bug where the 0 is being taken as a literal 0. this will be fixed and also the implicit. after that you need to check all the hands again. if any hand is still giving you strange results repost them and the def also

I think apart from these (Bug with 0, bug with implicit) there are a couple of other bugs decision which should not be long delayed.


Minimum strength 70, Maximum 100 - definition is attached



1)

DEL - Fixed in 2.2.2.3


2) I hope General Strength are used in conjunction with the Range?

Then why do I get "SUCCESS (MiddlePair)" if the condition of General Strenght is satisfied (75), but Range > Middle Pair is UNTICKED?

***** History for hand R5-189267697-146 *****
Start hand: Sat Nov 05 10:00:00 GMT 2011
Table: Pleasanton [189267697] (NO_LIMIT TEXAS_HOLDEM $0.50/$1, Real money)
Button: seat 1
Players in Round: 5
Seat 1: Johnnybix ($103.13)
Seat 3: HateMeeAgain ($213.26)
Seat 5: xLuckB0x ($163.11)
Seat 8: tili73 ($72.34)
Seat 9: bm20110211 ($100.4)
HateMeeAgain posts small blind ($0.50)
xLuckB0x posts big blind ($1)
---
Dealing pocket cards
tili73 calls $1.0
bm20110211 folds
Johnnybix raises $4.0 to $4.0
HateMeeAgain raises $11.5 to $12.0
xLuckB0x folds
tili73 calls $11.0
Johnnybix folds
--- Dealing flop [2c, 9c, Qd]
HateMeeAgain checks
tili73 checks
--- Dealing turn [6s]
HateMeeAgain checks
tili73 checks
--- Dealing river [8c]
HateMeeAgain bets $18.0
tili73 calls $18.0
---
Summary:
Main pot: $65 won by HateMeeAgain ($62)
Seat 1: Johnnybix ($99.13), net: -$4.0
Seat 3: HateMeeAgain ($245.26), net: +$32.0, [8h, 9h]
Seat 5: xLuckB0x ($162.11), net: -$1.0
Seat 8: tili73 ($42.34), net: -$30.0, [Ah, 8d]
Seat 9: bm20110211 ($100.4), net: -$0
***** End of hand R5-189267697-146 *****




Guys, I want to use the NC, but with so many "misunderstandings" with the implicit and General Strength I can not begin to use the NC in the game. (Each writing of notes by NC take about one day for me) I know, that i need upgrade but all the same it will take many hours to my base

Olaf
01-07-2012, 02:16 PM
Now i download new NC 2.2.2.2 - WOW!


By the previous 2 hands, you can add more (definition is in previous post):


3) Del - Fixed


4) SUCCESS - But Player Fold! Fold is not a strong Range



***** History for hand R5-191930016-230 *****
Start hand: Tue Nov 15 04:13:00 GMT 2011
Table: Teneriffa [191930016] (NO_LIMIT TEXAS_HOLDEM $0.50/$1, Real money)
Button: seat 6
Players in Round: 5
Seat 2: momphghomph7 ($94.5)
Seat 6: LaiLaiZhen ($98.5)
Seat 8: HateMeeAgain ($140.53)
Seat 9: .paolopinkel ($98.19)
Seat 10: adiwedkarz ($108.83)
HateMeeAgain posts small blind ($0.50)
.paolopinkel posts big blind ($1)
---
Dealing pocket cards
adiwedkarz folds
momphghomph7 folds
LaiLaiZhen raises $2.5 to $2.5
HateMeeAgain raises $9.5 to $10.0
.paolopinkel folds
LaiLaiZhen calls $7.5
--- Dealing flop [8c, 4h, Qh]
PLAYER_USED_TIME_BAN

HateMeeAgain checks
LaiLaiZhen checks
--- Dealing turn [Kc]
HateMeeAgain checks
LaiLaiZhen bets $12.0
HateMeeAgain folds
---
Summary:
Main pot: $21 won by LaiLaiZhen ($19.95)
Seat 2: momphghomph7 ($94.5), net: -$0
Seat 6: LaiLaiZhen ($108.45), net: +$9.95
Seat 8: HateMeeAgain ($130.53), net: -$10.0
Seat 9: .paolopinkel ($97.19), net: -$1.0
Seat 10: adiwedkarz ($108.83), net: -$0
***** End of hand R5-191930016-230 *****

nilaynilay
01-08-2012, 08:18 AM
are hand 3 and 4 using the same def that u attached with hand 1 and 2?

Olaf
01-08-2012, 08:29 AM
are hand 3 and 4 using the same def that u attached with hand 1 and 2?

Lol....
3-d hand Show Implicit Weaknes - as well as the fourth hand. Yes, This is 1 Def.

nilaynilay
01-08-2012, 08:33 AM
what is your Q with hand 4. hero folded to pressure. clear implicit weakness.

Olaf
01-08-2012, 08:36 AM
what is your Q with hand 4. hero folded to pressure. clear implicit weakness.

My Q is - Why SUCCESS when it should be OPPORTUNITY



It's good that $ turnhandrange considers implicit hand, and writes it to notes, but why is it considers weaknes as SUCCESS instead of OPPORTUNITY?

Olaf
01-08-2012, 08:57 AM
So, we have hands 1,2, 3=4. Especialy i'm worried about hand № 2 - I hope Range and General Strength in NC must work with Logical "&" - not "OR". What is your verdict?

nilaynilay
01-08-2012, 08:59 AM
implict weakness falls under range. so if u specify define opp by range and have implicit weakness ticked

hero folding will be considered as success

Olaf
01-08-2012, 09:02 AM
implict weakness falls under range. so if u specify define opp by range and have implicit weakness ticked

hero folding will be considered as success


nilaynilay - you watched my Definition???? I don't have Turn > Range > Implicit WEAKNES ticked!

nilaynilay
01-08-2012, 10:35 AM
nilaynilay - you watched my Definition???? I don't have Turn > Range > Implicit WEAKNES ticked!

didnt u have it ticked in flop.

Olaf
01-08-2012, 10:59 AM
didnt u have it ticked in flop.



If you leave everything for flop hands (range) checked that means NC doesn't care what they had on the flop. They had to have something so it has to be valid. As soon as you uncheck a single item, NC will look to see what they had.....

http://forums.holdemmanager.com/notecaddy/167321-something-very-bad-nc-flop-range-sampling-resolved.html#post832941

nilay - It seems as Sreti said?

So what i.m doing wrong? And what with hand 1 and Hand 2?

nilaynilay
01-08-2012, 11:02 AM
i am going to do a proper test. prolly best if i shut up till then :)

i was commenting based on my memory of the last test but i think thats a bad idea now

nilaynilay
01-10-2012, 09:47 AM
I have decided to wait till the next version is released as there are a number of fixes in it.

Olaf
01-15-2012, 08:21 PM
I have decided to wait till the next version is released as there are a number of fixes in it.


Great! Now i test hands with NC 2.2.2.3
and still have a question/problems with hands №2 and №4.

Please, read description for them in Post #16 and #17.


I'm espessially worried about hand №2. i'm shure, that current NC logic in this case is incorrect. General Strength and Hand Range should complement each other. General Strength should not take precedence over the hand combination. People play combination and not an imaginary General Strength. So, if i untick Middle Pair, i don't want recieve hand with Middle Pair as "Success".
But if Middle pair is ticked, and General Strength value is reached, then a hand should be counted as SUCCES, if General Strength value NOT reached - Opportunity.

This is an important issue for me, write a brief : Hand № 2 - it's a bug or a logic of the current NC?

nilaynilay
01-15-2012, 09:04 PM
I meant we should wait till next hm2 is released. i know you have force updated nc but sometimes that can also create problems.
But i will take a look at hand 2 and 4. hand 2 specially is more of a logic issue.

nilaynilay
01-16-2012, 09:16 PM
It seems general strength is over riding whatever you specify in the range.

This is why hand 2 is success

and hand 3 says incorrect turn hand(as it should) once you remove the general strength. however since you have specified define opportunity by range This should not be the case.

I am clarifying both with Sreti.

sreticentv
01-17-2012, 08:35 AM
Thank you for your insights and feedback olaf. I will go over this thread thoroughly when building the next version. Many of the things you mentioned should already be fixed in 2.2.2.3 but please understand it is an ongoing process with software that is completely programmable ;)