PDA

View Full Version : Please remove Microgaming support from HEM



DrawMaster
08-31-2009, 05:12 PM
Would be great if Microgaming support is removed from HEM.

Lots of players lost their money with BetOnBet liquidation. I know there are still reliable sites operating in microgaming like Ladbrokes & Unibet but they are operating under network that allowes money get robbed from their customers.

For this reason I think whole network should be banned by all players, and would be great message from HEM to say that this is not acceptable by removing support to this criminal network.

netsrak
09-01-2009, 05:50 AM
I'll forward it to Fabio for a statement.

Macroscopic
09-01-2009, 06:30 AM
I STRONGLY agree with this!

Sorry if you're a player on Microgaming but it's better that you don't play there.

daiquiri
09-01-2009, 02:38 PM
wtf, I am playing on ladbrokes which is separate from MG, only use their software. But even if I did play on MG, it's my fucking decision if I'm willing to take the extra risk of playing on their site or not. I can live with that risk but I can't live with some forum dummies suggesting that a software I bought with full functionality should be crippled so I can't use it because they personally think it's a good way to punish a poker network. Go mind your own fucking business and punish MG by staying away from it and by spreading the word that you find it unreliable. I request a 50% refund because of ethical reasons if HEM stops supporting one of my highest volume skins for ethical reasons.

fozzy71
09-01-2009, 03:15 PM
...... I request a 50% refund because of ethical reasons if HEM stops supporting one of my highest volume skins for ethical reasons.

You won't have any reason to need this refund. The chance we remove support for a particular functioning poker site is about 0%.

daiquiri
09-01-2009, 03:32 PM
You won't have any reason to need this refund. The chance we remove support for a particular functioning poker site is about 0%.

I'm glad to hear the HEM team is guided by common sense, I expected no less (although I was worried for a minute after netsrak's response)

DrawMaster
09-01-2009, 05:32 PM
I was not really expecting to see Microgaming support removed from HEM. My goal was just sprad the knowlede about this network unacceptable behavior.

I think netsrak & Macroscopic picked that up, but you daiquiri just dont have a clue.

Ignorant players like you make possible for these crooks go on what they are doing.

IMO

most important thing is that these facts get spread as much as possible. I would have really appreciated if someone told me year ago what happened at Microgaming. But somehow I missed the whole thing. And this is the reason I got burned with BetOnBet.

Microgaming rides with good reputation of Unibet & Ladbrokes, and that really is sad. They (Microgaming) will keep stealing from poker players forever if that is not going to change, and Unibet & Ladbrokes are supporting that action by operating under this criminal network.

daiquiri
09-01-2009, 06:00 PM
Would be great if Microgaming support is removed from HEM.


I was not really expecting to see Microgaming support removed from HEM.
Ignorant players like you make possible for these crooks go on what they are doing.

you'd be an awesome politician you say some stupid nonsense bs you get called out for it and then on the very same day on the very same page you say it's not what you meant (although you said it pretty darn clearly), and if someone doesn't get what you REALLY meant it's their ignorant stupidity. Nh.

Rvg72
09-01-2009, 07:46 PM
We won't remove support for any sites - we didn't remove support for UB and Absolute after the various "issues" they had because it is the choice of our customers on where they would like to play.

That all being said, people should be very careful about where they are leaving their money since your online poker account is not a bank (and even then not all of your money in the bank is necessarily guaranteed) and this isn't the first time sites have gone bankrupt and players have lost their money

Roy

DrawMaster
09-02-2009, 06:07 AM
I'm not expecting to see Microgaming support removed, but it really would be great if that happens. There it is, in same sentence. Can't see the nonsense, thats exactly how I feel.

I wouldn't mind if removal is done because naturally I don't support MG in any way anymore. Same thing is true with cereus network. There are enough reliable networks to choose from.

If there is one player, reading this thread, who didn't know what happens in MG network I have gained what I was after.

Knowing how bad things are with MG, and still supporting it makes you (or anyone still playing there) ignorant.

Sorry if "ignorant" is too harsh or completely wrong word here. Got my english from school , so it is far from perfect. I'm using "ignorant" in sense of "someone who doesn't even want to care what happens to other people".

Dark Star
09-04-2009, 06:14 AM
if you don't want to play at a MG site then fair enough, but don't try to insist everyone else does the same or that HM should withdraw support

i've no problem whatsoever playing at a site like ladbrokes and i wouldn't appreciate anyone insulting me for doing so or trying to remove HM support for the site

DrawMaster
09-05-2009, 11:24 AM
if you don't want to play at a MG site then fair enough, but don't try to insist everyone else does the same or that HM should withdraw support

i've no problem whatsoever playing at a site like ladbrokes and i wouldn't appreciate anyone insulting me for doing so or trying to remove HM support for the site

Of course I don't want to play at Microgaming. I don't want to support criminal activities. Stealing money from players is not legal and MG allowes this.

I'm not trying to insult anyone, sorry if you got offended. MG is getting new players every day, and some of these players have never heard about scams going on at MG. It is their right to know about it, and then choose if they want to be part of that scam.

That is my goal, warn people who does not know.

People who know they are dealing with crooks and still not doing anything about it, they actually desrve to get their money robbed.

All Apologies
09-07-2009, 02:36 PM
i've no problem whatsoever playing at a site like ladbrokes and i wouldn't appreciate anyone insulting me for doing so or trying to remove HM support for the site

imo I think Ladbrokes is probably safe (maybe even Unibet) BUT a lot of people thought the same about EL and BonB and before that all the TUSK sites before that and before that there was another one (can't remember the name right now off the top of my head). Microgaming is a crooked operation and I understand where OP is coming from, lots of people are out LOTS of money and Microgaming's response to it is "oh well, contact the Liquidators *wash hands*". If Microgaming came out and attempted to help players, provide details on what to do, etc it would be different.

unheld
09-19-2009, 03:32 PM
sorry I have no Idea about any MG funny business, can someone tell me where I can read about this?
I tried the free trial of holdem manager earlier this year, I liked that it worked on ladbrokes, since nothing else did work.
Not to long ago I bought holdem manager because I was planning on playing more on ladbrokes, but no matter what I try I can't get it to work on ladbrokes.Is there no more support,does it even work on ladbrokes anymore?
I came to the forum to read about lads but I think i missed a scandle somewhere.
If holdem manager no longer works on ladbrokes can I have my money back?

GrindUnumb
09-19-2009, 06:27 PM
sorry I have no Idea about any MG funny business, can someone tell me where I can read about this?
I tried the free trial of holdem manager earlier this year, I liked that it worked on ladbrokes, since nothing else did work.
Not to long ago I bought holdem manager because I was planning on playing more on ladbrokes, but no matter what I try I can't get it to work on ladbrokes.Is there no more support,does it even work on ladbrokes anymore?
I came to the forum to read about lads but I think i missed a scandle somewhere.
If holdem manager no longer works on ladbrokes can I have my money back?

It was Eurolinx & BetonBet closing last month will all players funds. Last year it was all the Tusk skins. There are a thousand threads on 2+2 about both. If your money is safe on any Microgaming skin, its Ladbrokes.

kingcobra1
09-20-2009, 05:49 AM
Just to throw in my two cents here, I'm on the side of the people who have the common sense to realize that if some of their customers want to play somewhere, and the software supports it, and they paid for the software, and the software company wants to keep them happy by supporting it, then it makes absolutely no sense to defer all this to the opinions of a few disgruntled users. You may think this network and anyone associated with it should burn in hell but it's left to the individual user whether in spite of your feeling that way they want to continue playing there and using tools like HM there, as it should be. Drum beating, rabble rousing personal comment should be reserved for places where there's at least a remote bit of fit and relevance.

All Apologies
09-20-2009, 01:05 PM
Just to throw in my two cents here, I'm on the side of the people who have the common sense to realize that if some of their customers want to play somewhere, and the software supports it, and they paid for the software, and the software company wants to keep them happy by supporting it, then it makes absolutely no sense to defer all this to the opinions of a few disgruntled users. You may think this network and anyone associated with it should burn in hell but it's left to the individual user whether in spite of your feeling that way they want to continue playing there and using tools like HM there, as it should be. Drum beating, rabble rousing personal comment should be reserved for places where there's at least a remote bit of fit and relevance.

I agree, I don't and never will play on Cereus - I never played before FWIW - I as a poker player hate to see this type of stuff happen to other players, its horrible for the game and I don't want to give money to a company that allowed shady stuff to go on, thats why I won't ever play on a Microgaming site ever again. If someone wants to its up to them.

For the poster above heres some threads on the issues if you want to read about.

TUSK Scandal;

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/29/news-views-gossip/microgaming-poker-scandal-licensee-liquidation-poker-players-abandoned-owed-5-3m-452491/

Eurolinx/BonB Scandal;

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28/internet-poker/eurolinx-w-d-problems-update-eurolinx-seeks-put-business-into-liquidation-484586/

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/29/news-views-gossip/my-eurolinx-story-571067/

http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/casino-industry-discussion/33130-eurolinx-betonbet-linx-casino-gone-into-liquidation.html

DrawMaster
09-23-2009, 05:46 PM
If your money is safe on any Microgaming skin, its Ladbrokes.

I agree, but this is not the point.

Microgaming network rides with good reputation of Ladbrokes. Microgaming does not care what kind of criminals sets up a skin to their network, thay are just interested to get more players to their network. They make contract with anyone, no matter what background.

So, in a way Ladbrokes is supporting this activity. Players who decide to play at Ladbrokes or some other skin at MG are supporting these crooks too.

If players at MG network are not doing anything, things are not going to change. We just wait next scandal to happen.

I know money at Ladbrokes is safe, but I don't keep it there because they are just trying to guide new players in the hands of criminals. I won't support that, and I have told that to Ladbrokes.

If Ladbrokes & Unibet leaves MG network, there is not much left to it. That would be best that could happen to online poker right now.

All Apologies
09-24-2009, 09:33 AM
Also a player who got caught chimp dumping from EL to Ladbrokes after EL went bankrupt. Ladbrokes took the players funds and transfered it back to EL - EL HAD GONE INSOLVENT AT THE TIME. MG says they don't hold players funds, so how is this possible?

Like the poster above me, Jo Remme the owner of EL and BonB was a life time criminal who ran numerous pyramid schemes and what not and was allowed by MG to operate a poker room under their Network, a simple google search brings up all this crap about him yet they didn't know about any of his past, what a joke of a network.

unheld
09-24-2009, 11:58 AM
I downloaded holdem manager trial version in early feb/09, as well as my new poker site ladbrokes.It might be a coincidence or not,but after about a week of play ,2 mtt's apart, less than12 hrs apart, I had two mtt's finish exactly the same.
I am not a pro grinder, but I read books, watch videos,visit forums and have joined an on line poker school.My icm training has brought me to a 95% average over-all(not perfect but I try to be).At the time the two mtt's seemed unusual,now maybe its just suspicious.
As each mtt progressed, I can say I was not doing well as my chip stacks kept dwindling dangerously low.I am now playing tight to icm, looking for the best possible place to push my chips.Now at about 7 BB, late position, no raisers before me, finally a pocket pair of 8's,I push because I have found my spot.Both mtt's finish in the same way, playing tight icm, pushing pocket 8's from late position, 7 BB, finishing in 88 position both times.
At the time it sure seemed like I played the same mtt again.
Trial version of holdem manager over, and I decided not to purchase at that time.By the time April arrived I was being disconected every wining hand I had on another poker site, losing the hand every time.I discovered that my firewall, and a poker tracking software was infected by spyware, the only remedy i could come up with was to re-configure my computer operating system from scratch.I did not save any files, including HM files.So I no longer have this on my computer,But I am thinking that someone at the Holdem manager site, has a super computer data base of all HM customers.
Ladbrokes gives you the option of playing on/in network games, or just laddies tables as well.Ladbrokes games in green writing and network games in black writing.
I am not sure if these were network games or laddies or both.
I would like someone to look at these games to make sure they were just a coincidence.:confused:

Alexdb
09-28-2009, 07:29 AM
I've read the 2+2 threads, and one thing I have noticed is that there is no reason to believe that Microgaming has the funds. They didn't even do anything wrong, except that they never did audit and certify the firms that bought their services, as some players had assumed.

(Yes, maybe they should. But they didn't say they did. That's why Ladbrokes has a certificate from PWC not from Microgaming, and that's what players should have looked for at other skins.)


Also a player who got caught chimp dumping from EL to Ladbrokes after EL went bankrupt. Ladbrokes took the players funds and transfered it back to EL - EL HAD GONE INSOLVENT AT THE TIME. MG says they don't hold players funds, so how is this possible?


Not sure what you're asking? If player "El" loses to player "La" during August, then in the next accounting period MGS send Eurolinx an invoice for the player balance deficit so that they can send Ladbrokes a cheque.

Chip dumping is against the rules so on review they unwind the transaction, have Ladbrokes debit the "La" account and Eurolinx credit the "El" account, and cancel the cheque to Ladbrokes. If Eurolinx are bankrupt then they still have no money, no money changed hands, they probably still owe the network money, the debt just hasn't increased by the amount of that balance.

All Apologies
10-02-2009, 01:08 AM
Wow Microgaming comes out looking even more shady here;

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28/internet-poker/open-letter-microgaming-re-tusk-bankruptcy-346361/

All Apologies
10-14-2009, 08:04 PM
Wow, for all those "Ladbrokes is probably safe", I sure hope so;

http://uk.biz.yahoo.com/08102009/325/ladbrokes-raise-275-million.html

Ladbrokes to raise £275 million

LONDON (Reuters) - Ladbrokes , the country's biggest bookmaker, said it planned to raise 275 million pounds through a deeply-discounted rights issue it will use to trim its debt, sending its shares down as much as 8 percent on Wednesday.

Ladbrokes, which has 2,700 betting shops, also said it would not pay a final dividend on 2009 earnings as it looks to improve its financial position against the backdrop of a weak economic environment and a run of unfavourable football results.

The move by Ladbrokes echoes that of rival William Hill , which raised 350 million pounds through a rights issue in February while also scrapping its dividend and renegotiating banking facilities as it looked to reduce debt.

Ladbrokes' shareholders will be entitled to purchase 1 new share for each 2 they already own at a price of 95 pence per share, a discount of nearly 50 percent to Wednesday's closing price of 181 pence.

The company said its net debt will fall to 687 million pounds from 962 million following the placing.

Shares in Ladbrokes, which have underperformed the FTSE All Share Travel & Leisure Index by 22 percent since the start of the year, were down 6.8 percent at 168.8 pence at 0740 GMT having been as low as 165 pence.

William Hill shares were down 3 percent at 171.

"We have a sell recommendation on the (Ladbrokes) shares and, on the basis that betting is impacted by unemployment and unemployment is a lagging indicator, we will retain that recommendation," said Astaire Securities analyst Mark Brumby.

(Reporting by Matt Scuffham, editing by Will Waterman, John Stonestreet)

DrawMaster
10-15-2009, 03:21 PM
I still think Ladbrokes is safe, but I also think that Microgaming is still bad apple in poker industry. It is only matter of time when they fall.

I have sent my humble opinions to both Unibet & Ladbrokes. I told them that I have stopped to be and never will be their customer until they stop supporting criminals.

Had nice conversation with Unibet support. First they defended theirself fiercely but after clearing the fact that its only Microgaming who stinks here, they understood my point and promised to inform me if they ever change network.

Ladbrokes has never even answered to my complain...?!? What should I think about that?

All Apologies
10-16-2009, 04:32 PM
I still think Ladbrokes is safe, but I also think that Microgaming is still bad apple in poker industry. It is only matter of time when they fall.

I have sent my humble opinions to both Unibet & Ladbrokes. I told them that I have stopped to be and never will be their customer until they stop supporting criminals.

Had nice conversation with Unibet support. First they defended theirself fiercely but after clearing the fact that its only Microgaming who stinks here, they understood my point and promised to inform me if they ever change network.

Ladbrokes has never even answered to my complain...?!? What should I think about that?

I've done the same, Ladbrokes sent an email back saying how safe they are and that the money they hold is safe, etc, etc. I sent them an email back saying the same thing, its not them, its Microgaming, they replied with the same stuff. Not sure if they understand its not them I'm never going to support is any MG operated site.

MinusEV
10-27-2009, 09:50 AM
Can someone give me a short and concise explanation of what exactly Microgaming has done wrong? Because I have yet to get a reasonable explanation of this.

Why should MG be responsible for the companies that buy/rent their products and services? I've seen speculations that MG held the funds for these companies, but nothing close to actual proof of this?

Did/do MG function as a regulating body or guarantee for the companies that use(d) their services?

DrawMaster
10-27-2009, 05:36 PM
Can someone give me a short and concise explanation of what exactly Microgaming has done wrong? Because I have yet to get a reasonable explanation of this.

If you ask from MG, they propably say that they have done nothing wrong. Lawsuit against MG would propably fail aswell. But if companies fall and millions of poker players money dissapears every now and then, there just has to be something wrong somewhere.


Why should MG be responsible for the companies that buy/rent their products and services? I've seen speculations that MG held the funds for these companies, but nothing close to actual proof of this?

Does not matter what kind of background people have when they go and make poker room under MG network. MG is absolutely not interested about that. They are just happy to get more income as rake for some time. When players lose their money when these crooks steal them by closing their room, MG has done nothing wrong again.

People who still play at MG are actually saying that this kind of behavior is OK. I'm not one of them. I think everyone should stop giving money to criminals and leave any MG-site they are playing in. Or at least let their poker room know that they should change their network.

If Ladbrokes and/or Unibet changes network, it would kill MG for sure.

I don't have any proof that MG actually holds these lost funds, but if that kind of information is ever revealed I'm not going to be surprised at all.


Did/do MG function as a regulating body or guarantee for the companies that use(d) their services?

Not at all, but they really should. Don't you agree?

MinusEV
10-27-2009, 09:38 PM
If you ask from MG, they propably say that they have done nothing wrong. Lawsuit against MG would propably fail aswell. But if companies fall and millions of poker players money dissapears every now and then, there just has to be something wrong somewhere.

Obviously something was wrong, but does that mean you just take the nearest company that is still running and demand that they pay back the money wether or not they were responsible for the wrongs that happened?

I fully understand that the people who lost money want to get it back - they obviously deserve to. But wasn't it Tusk and other companies who went bust and took all that money with them, not MG?


Does not matter what kind of background people have when they go and make poker room under MG network. MG is absolutely not interested about that. They are just happy to get more income as rake for some time. When players lose their money when these crooks steal them by closing their room, MG has done nothing wrong again.

Why should they care though? They're selling a service and that service is not to vouch for the companies that buy their products. If they have claimed or issued any such guarantees then that obviously changes things, but as far as I know, they haven't?

How far can and should MG go to make sure all companies that use their product is well funded and without problems? Could they (legally), even if they wanted to? How far can MG go to insist on getting details of how these companies run their business?

And why is, or should this be, MGs responsibility?


Not at all, but they really should. Don't you agree?

No, I don't. I still do not see why selling a product or service to a company should make you responsible for their actions?

If a local company went bust while owing you money, would you insist Microsoft should pay you back because the company that went bust was using Microsoft software?

DrawMaster
10-30-2009, 11:57 AM
Obviously something was wrong, but does that mean you just take the nearest company that is still running and demand that they pay back the money wether or not they were responsible for the wrongs that happened?

Not just any nearest company, but the one who desides who is honest enough to hold players money.



I fully understand that the people who lost money want to get it back - they obviously deserve to. But wasn't it Tusk and other companies who went bust and took all that money with them, not MG?

MG is responsible of accepting those criminals to act in their network, therefore I think they should take that responsibility.

Money is lost forever, only fool is expecting to get anything back.



Why should they care though? They're selling a service and that service is not to vouch for the companies that buy their products. If they have claimed or issued any such guarantees then that obviously changes things, but as far as I know, they haven't?

That is exactly what is wrong here. MG does not give a damn about this problem, they get more rake-income and they don't care if criminals rob players bankrolls in the way. They just count the profit coming from increasing activity in their network.

THIS IS BULLSHIT! And no-one should support this behavior. And I just can't understand why honest big companies like Unibet & Ladbrokes can't see that they are creating environment for this scam. If they leave MG, there is nothing left there.



How far can and should MG go to make sure all companies that use their product is well funded and without problems? Could they (legally), even if they wanted to? How far can MG go to insist on getting details of how these companies run their business?

And why is, or should this be, MGs responsibility?

No, I don't. I still do not see why selling a product or service to a company should make you responsible for their actions?

If a local company went bust while owing you money, would you insist Microsoft should pay you back because the company that went bust was using Microsoft software?

You mean that we can't blame gun manufacturer when someone get killed.
I agree, but this is little bit different thing...

If you set up local restaurant and make deal with McDonalds to use their brand. Then you start selling bad quality food there and people get sick. Don't you think McDonalds is not responsible about your actions in any way.

Alexdb
10-30-2009, 12:00 PM
MG is responsible of accepting those criminals to act in their network, therefore I think they should take that responsibility.


Errr, the players were responsible for giving those criminals their business, how much responsibility does that earn them?

MinusEV
10-31-2009, 09:36 AM
Not just any nearest company, but the one who desides who is honest enough to hold players money.

How are MG deciding this? They are selling a product/service! Are you saying that any company that sells business solutions should be responsible for what the people who buy their products do with them?

It has never even occoured to me to look to what network a site is on when I decided to trust, or not trust, them with my money. Wether or not I trust a site is based on how I feel about that site - not who might provide them with the products they use to run their business.


MG is responsible of accepting those criminals to act in their network, therefore I think they should take that responsibility.

Why? You keep saying they should have this and that responsibility, but the problem is, they don't. They've never said they take that responsibility. Are we free to just make up what responsibilities we feel a business agreement between two companies should entail and claim that a company that doesn't fulfill responsibilities that we've made up are criminals and should be boycotted?

Trillos
11-01-2009, 09:57 AM
So holdemmanager should determin where people should play? No way.

If i want to play on a microgaming skin, why should that be any of your business?

Its my own concern to jugde the safety of the specific site. Not the HM community.