Positions 6max

[Apanage]

I have noticed that notecaddy haven't got the same definition as HM2 have when it comes to positions in 6-max games.

When someone open limps or open raises from the HJ in a 5 handed game it is displayed as an Open limp or open raise
from Early position using the note definitions that comes predefined with notecaddy.

In a 6-max game button+2=HJ=MP and Button+3=UTG=EP according to me and HM2.

What positions is equivalent to HM2:s MP and EP in a 6-max game in Notecaddy?

[sreticentv]

You can see each position as it pertains to NC by hovering over the help icon in pre flop->general in the script editor. Here is the info though:

38311

e.g. I think they're the same

[Apanage]

You can see each position as it pertains to NC by hovering over the help icon in pre flop->general in the script editor. Here is the info though:

38311

e.g. I think they're the same


Don't get it really? For me the positions in a 6max game are:
1.BB
2.SB
3.BUT
4.CO
5.MP (HJ)
6.EP (UTG)

In a 10max game the positions for me are

1.BB
2.SB
3.BUT
4.CO
5.HJ (MP+2)
6.MP (MP+1)
7.MP
8.EP (UTG+2)
9.EP (UTG+1)
10.EP (UTG)

But according to you the player acting first in a 5-handed game is UTG and the player acting first in a 6handed game is MP.Have I understood the PNG correctly?
For me that PNG made so little sense that I was convinced it was messed up when I looked at it the first time hence the post.

But if we put the terminology aside. If I want to take a note of only the hands a player has open raised acting first in a 5handed game then I should mark the under the gun box in note caddy and no other.Is that correct?

I'm really confused here.

[nilaynilay]

i will let Sreti confirm this but the image shows pos introduced by game size

so when the game changes from 5-6 the new pos introduced is mp
first guy to act is still utg then mp then the rest

[sreticentv]

Nilay is correct. Me posting that image wasn't the most efficient way to answer that question



But if we put the terminology aside. If I want to take a note of only the hands a player has open raised acting first in a 5handed game then I should mark the under the gun box in note caddy and no other.Is that correct?


indeed. Just keep in mind that 4 max and lower there is no UTG

[Apanage]

Nilay is correct. Me posting that image wasn't the most efficient way to answer that question



indeed. Just keep in mind that 4 max and lower there is no UTG


I may be completely stupid but doesn't this mean unnecessary trouble for 6max players?

When the UTG definition shifts whether it is 5 or 6 handed it means that I have to make four separate note definitions to correctly cover UTG or HJ Open raises if I play in both 5 and 6 handed games.
When using your definitions of position NC equals an open raise first in in a 6handed game with an open raise first in in a 5handed game (since in both cases UTG is the name assigned to the player performing the action.)This is undesirable since most players have vastly different ranges from respective position.
The only way to get around that problem is to make separate note definitions for 5 and 6 handed games *for both UTG and HJ Which results in a 4 note output.

If UTG always was the sixth player coming into a game and HJ always was the fifth player in the game it would be enough with two note definitions to cover UTG and HJ Open raises regardless whether the game is 5 or 6 handed.

[nilaynilay]

This is a interesting. point i will fwd this to Sretis att.

[sreticentv]

UTG is always first to act when there's 5+ players

Click tools->test environment and then paste a hand in there and it will show you their position under the "pre flop" section under their name

[Apanage]

Yeah I know that UTG is always first to act. But how am I supposed to do if I want to create a note definition of what hands a player Open raises 2 from the button AND a note definition of what hands a player Open raises 3 from the button regardless of how many players there are in the hand in a 6maxgame.
Can you show me an example where you can display Those hands by only creating two note definitions because I can not see how that is possible.
But it would be possible if every position was fixed and always had the same name.

[sreticentv]

Where does HM give you the option to filter by distance from the button? As far as I know the NC positions work the same way as HEM's. For example, exporting this 4 player hand from HEM, there is no UTG here either.

On Game, $5/$10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 4 Players
Poker Tools (http://www.holdemmanager.com/) Powered By Holdem Manager (http://www.holdemmanager.com/) - The Ultimate Poker Software (http://www.holdemmanager.com/) Suite.

SB: $190 (19 bb)
Hero (BB): $1,000 (100 bb)
CO: $1,954 (195.4 bb)
BTN: $297.10 (29.7 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 2http://pokertools.holdemmanager.com/images/emoticons/diamond4.gif 2http://pokertools.holdemmanager.com/images/emoticons/spade4.gif
CO raises to $30, 2 folds, Hero calls $20

Flop: ($65) Qhttp://pokertools.holdemmanager.com/images/emoticons/heart4.gif 2http://pokertools.holdemmanager.com/images/emoticons/club4.gif 6http://pokertools.holdemmanager.com/images/emoticons/diamond4.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $50, Hero raises to $160, CO folds

Results: $165 pot ($2 rake)
Final Board: Qhttp://pokertools.holdemmanager.com/images/emoticons/heart4.gif 2http://pokertools.holdemmanager.com/images/emoticons/club4.gif 6http://pokertools.holdemmanager.com/images/emoticons/diamond4.gif
Hero mucked 2http://pokertools.holdemmanager.com/images/emoticons/diamond4.gif 2http://pokertools.holdemmanager.com/images/emoticons/spade4.gif and won $163 ($83 net)
CO mucked and lost (-$80 net)

So, yes, if you're interested in distance from the button as opposed to standard positions you would need multiple definitions

[Apanage]

I don't understand your example.CO is always CO both in HM2 and NC and CO is always 1 from button.
The problem is that you're shifting name on the first two positions in a 6-max game whether it is a 5 or a 6handed game while HM2 doesn't

So I filtered for 2-6 max players in HM2 and converted 3 of my hands.
Observe that MP always is the player 2 from the button regardless of it is 5 or 6 players in the hand.And that UTG (named EP in HM2 filters) always is the player 3 from the button.So in HM2 I only have to make one filter/definition to determine what hands a player open raise from MP (2 from the button).



[converted_hand][hand_history]Pacific, $10/$20 Limit Hold'em Cash, 5 Players
Poker Tools (http://www.holdemmanager.com/affdata/PASG-LLC/twoplustwo/) Powered By Holdem Manager (http://www.holdemmanager.com/affdata/PASG-LLC/twoplustwo/) - The Ultimate Poker Software (http://www.holdemmanager.com/affdata/PASG-LLC/twoplustwo/) Suite. View Hand #11199212 (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/poker-hand-converter.php?url=%2Fpokertools%2Fhand%2F11199212% 2F)

Preflop: Hero is MP with J:spade: 9:spade:
Hero raises, CO calls, BTN folds, SB calls, BB calls

Flop: (8 SB) 4:spade: J:diamond: T:diamond: (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets, CO calls, SB calls, BB raises, Hero 3-bets, CO calls, SB calls, BB calls

Turn: (10 BB) K:diamond: (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets, CO raises, SB calls, 2 folds

River: (15 BB) 3:diamond: (2 players)
SB checks, CO bets, SB calls









[converted_hand][hand_history]Pacific, $10/$20 Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools (http://www.holdemmanager.com/affdata/PASG-LLC/twoplustwo/) Powered By Holdem Manager (http://www.holdemmanager.com/affdata/PASG-LLC/twoplustwo/) - The Ultimate Poker Software (http://www.holdemmanager.com/affdata/PASG-LLC/twoplustwo/) Suite. View Hand #11199202 (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/poker-hand-converter.php?url=%2Fpokertools%2Fhand%2F11199202% 2F)

Preflop: Hero is MP with T:spade: T:heart:
UTG folds, Hero raises, 2 folds, SB calls, BB 3-bets, Hero caps, SB calls, BB calls

Flop: (12 SB) T:diamond: 9:diamond: A:spade: (3 players)
SB checks, BB bets, Hero raises, SB folds, BB 3-bets, Hero caps, BB calls

Turn: (10 BB) 2:spade: (2 players)
BB bets, Hero raises, BB 3-bets, Hero calls and is all-in

River: (15.1 BB) 7:heart: (2 players, 1 is all-in)


[converted_hand][hand_history]Pacific, $10/$20 Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools (http://www.holdemmanager.com/affdata/PASG-LLC/twoplustwo/) Powered By Holdem Manager (http://www.holdemmanager.com/affdata/PASG-LLC/twoplustwo/) - The Ultimate Poker Software (http://www.holdemmanager.com/affdata/PASG-LLC/twoplustwo/) Suite. View Hand #11199222 (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/poker-hand-converter.php?url=%2Fpokertools%2Fhand%2F11199222% 2F)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with T:heart: J:heart:
Hero raises, 2 folds, BTN calls, SB calls, BB folds

Flop: (7 SB) J:club: 4:heart: 9:heart: (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, BTN calls, SB calls

Turn: (5 BB) K:club: (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, BTN raises, SB 3-bets, Hero calls, BTN calls

River: (14 BB) 4:spade: (3 players)
SB bets, 2 folds

If we for example use the predefined "Open raise early position note" that comes with NC then we get a note that displays and equals hands that have been Open raised first in 10,9,8,7,6 and 5 handed games (unless we make several separate notes altering the game size)which basically gives us useless information.For example many 10max high stakes games are frequently floating between shorthanded and full ring.To be able to determine exactly what hand players are open raising from button+x is vital imo.
Again if two position boxes with fixed positions would be created in NC.One for 6 max and one for 10max.Then you would always be able to get one note for exactly that position regardless of how many players that actually are in the hand.

[Timtif]

ignore this post

[Tadeyoshi]

I don't like your logic in this too. In some definitions I want to know exactly the range from every single position. A UTG range in a 6 handed table is not the same range like a utg range in a 5 handed table. The best way to me is to work with fix positions (UTG, UTG1, UTG2, MP1, MP2, MP3, CO, BU, SB, BB). That would be perfect, all my defs automatically would work for fr and sh tables. But if you only would change your logic following Apanages suggests it would be very great too.

[Timtif]

I don't like your logic in this too. In some definitions I want to know exactly the range from every single position. A UTG range in a 6 handed table is not the same range like a utg range in a 5 handed table. The best way to me is to work with fix positions (UTG, UTG1, UTG2, MP1, MP2, MP3, CO, BU, SB, BB). That would be perfect, all my defs automatically would work for fr and sh tables. But if you only would change your logic following Apanages suggests it would be very great too.

same here:cool:

[antneye]

You can define notes based on seats off of the button. I did that rather than deal with this issue. It is listed right under the position names.

[derders]

the problem is the middle position

utg is everytime utg - if 6handed or 5handed

you have to make 2 definitions to combine a "real" mp stat


you can do it like this:

take the "open raises early" definition and add Preflop - General - Maximum Players dealt a 5

save it as new definition with name "open raises early5" and for the description "open raises middle"

you will get a message that a name with same description exist ...

yet both are combined (new 5handed MP def and standard open raises middle def)


for a HUD stat you need to make a composite definition

Expression: NC.open raises early5 + NC.open raises middle

tick "Use 0 for not found NoteCaddy note"