Cold call 3bet and cold 4bet

[Divine_Shadow]

Hello. Guys, I've been asking you to add these stas so many times, but I still can't find them. I'm not the only one on this forum faced this problem, I can't start using hm2 while not having these ones... PLEASE add them, cuz I really want to start using it. :o

[netsrak]

Coldcall 3bet was recently added.

[Divine_Shadow]

Could you please tell me where can I find it in popup designer and open 4bet?

[Patvs]

Are you using HM1 or HM2??

[Divine_Shadow]

Hm2

[johncc]

they are in v3bet and v4bet

[Divine_Shadow]

There neither cold call 3bet nor open 3bet in "vs 3bet" and the same in the vs 4bet.... I've got latest version hm2 was asking me to install, it is 2.0.0.5735.

[johncc]

Open 3bet? I assume u mean 3bet? will be under 3bet as would 4bet

cold call 3bet is the same as call3bet http://i42.tinypic.com/2z50ps9.png

so v4bet is http://i40.tinypic.com/if5vfp.png

[Divine_Shadow]

This is not cold call 3bet dude, this is just call 3bet. Cold call 3bet is when preflop player 1 raises player 2 3-bets and player 3 cold calls 3bet. Open 4bet is when player 3 in this example 4-bets.

[johncc]

aao correct

[johncc]

This is not cold call 3bet dude, this is just call 3bet. Cold call 3bet is when preflop player 1 raises player 2 3-bets and player 3 cold calls 3bet. Open 4bet is when player 3 in this example 4-bets.

to simplify
This is not cold call 3bet dude, this is just call 3bet = preflop player 1 raises player 2 3-bets and player 3 cold calls 3bet.

[Divine_Shadow]

yep, u get it right. About 4-bet: if someone raised after 3bet it is called open 4-bet. But still THERE ARE NO THESE STATS in popup designer -_- And i can't start using hm2 for a second week.... that makes me sad, cuz I rly want to start using it's new features. In my limit I just can't play without these god damn stats.

[Divine_Shadow]

If you mean that TOT call 3bet is exactly cold call 3bet, then you're wrong. TOT call 3bet is when player that raises and faces 3bet called it.

[johncc]

I was
They are the sameeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[Divine_Shadow]

Lol dude, do you understand words? ) TOT call 3bet is when player that raises and faces 3bet called it.

[johncc]

this if fun

TOT call 3bet is when player that raises and faces 3bet called it.

do u agree if this actioned happened then the player has also cold called it or called open???

[Divine_Shadow]

lol no ofcourse. These are absolutely different things.

[johncc]

please explain as to how by using this example

[Divine_Shadow]

omg dude. look: TOT call 3bet it is when you raise preflop, your opponent 3bets you and you CALL it. cold call 3bet is when someone 3bets before you act and now is your turn and you CALL it. See the difference now? Cold call means when there's some action before you and it is your turn to act u just call it flat. Got it now?

[Patvs]

Call 3bet and Cold Call 3bet are two entirely different stats. (definition of Divine_Shadow is correct)

As of now it seems some of the (important) Cold Call stats have disappeared. We are fixing a stat issue currently (renaming a lot of stats). Cold Call 3bet (and Cold 4bet) should return in the next main update.

[Divine_Shadow]

Thatnk you, Patvs, I'll be waiting )

[Patvs]

It turns out

The stats never went away, they just got renamed to Raise vs 2+ Raisers and Call vs 2+ Raisers, respectively. Those and numerous other related stats can be found in the ........ vs 2+ Raisers Category!

We moved the stats into the vs 2+ Raisers category to make it much clearer that in HM2;

- a player can only get 3Bet by a player behind;
- a player can only 4Bet an opponent who has already 3Bet player;
- a player can only 3Bet as his first preflop action;
- a player can only 4Bet as his second preflop action; and
- Limp/Reraises are not considered as 3Bets.

Among the many reasons for renaming these stats, one that is often overlooked is the substantial difference in playing dynamics between facing a single opponent who has 3Bet behind you and facing 2 opponents who have raised and reraised in front of you.

[Oracle3001]

Would be good to get a webpage / pdf up with all this clarified, as well as all the ip / oop 3bet / vs 3bet etc, as it seems a lot of people are very confused about what each stat means and if it still exists.

[DogNamedBluff]

Would be good to get a webpage / pdf up with all this clarified, as well as all the ip / oop 3bet / vs 3bet etc, as it seems a lot of people are very confused about what each stat means and if it still exists.
This is being worked on and will be implemented as soon as possible.

[DoubleFly]

I found these stats, but what exactly is "defend vs 2+ raisers"? does "defend" = call percentage plus raise (5bet) percentage? Does it apply to each person (the original raiser and the 3bettor)? or just the original raiser? I am interested in finding out how often the 3bettor folds to a cold 4bet. Is that in HEM2 somewhere?

[kamachos]

I found these stats, but what exactly is "defend vs 2+ raisers"? does "defend" = call percentage plus raise (5bet) percentage? Does it apply to each person (the original raiser and the 3bettor)? or just the original raiser?

No. Defend means that when you have a raiser and a 3bet and action comes to you then you VPIP by either cold calling the 3bet or cold 4betting. It applies to players behind the raiser and the 3bettor.


I am interested in finding out how often the 3bettor folds to a cold 4bet. Is that in HEM2 somewhere? You cannot isolate this particular situation right now.

you can do:

Advanced filters

Could Cold 4bet=True
PFR=True

This shows all hands that you cold 4bet. Then you can see how often you see a flop, but it is not exactly what you ask for.

[wlodi]

where can i find cold 4bet stat in HM2?

[Patvs]

in the vs2+raisers category: TOT Raise vs 2+ Raisers

[BubbleBoy]

I am looking for 'fold to 5bet after cold 4bet'

There is a stat 'BB fold to 5bet' which I thought would give the 'BB cold 4bet / fold' since it is very difficult to 4bet in the BB without it being a cold 4bet (youd have to iso/4b a limper). But the 'BB fold to 5bet' has zero occurrences for all players so it certainly isn't triggered by a 'cold 4bet/fold'. Is there such a stat?

[DogNamedBluff]

We do not have such a stat. There is only TOT Fold to 5bet and Positional Fold to 5bet.

[BubbleBoy]

well unfortunately both 'TOT fold to 5bet' and positional 'fold to 5bet' do not capture 'open 4bet - fold' (which I actually thin is good)

maybe as a feature request: expand the 2+ raisers stats.

[LeRoy]

Would be nice to have Call vs 2 raisers by position!

[fozzy71]

Thank you for the suggestions. I have forwarded them to our lead stats tester so he can see if they have already been requested in the past.