4b/fold vs 3b IP/OOP meaning

[JSANz]

Hi,

In HM1 i remember that fold vs 3b OOP meant that someone OOP 3betted, not that the player being 3betted was OOP. Which btw was kind of confusing, Anyway, the question is: is this still so? For instance, EP Fold vs 3b OOP refers to those times when EP is 3betted by the blinds? (despite the fact that EP is actually IP in this spot).

Thank you very much in advanced.

[Oracle3001]

I don't know which it is, but to my mind it should be that EP Fold to 3Bet OOP means the times one is in early position and you fold when facing a 3Bet making you out of position i.e for EP facing a 3-bet from MP / CO / OTB...and that EP Fold to 3Bet IP, is facing a 3-bet from the blinds. In other words the IP / OOP tag relates to the position the person now taking the action is. I have always assumed that to be the case for things like CBet IP etc.

Would be very good to get this cleared up as I am about to add all this to my HUD.

[JSANz]

HM1 definitions:

Fold_vs_3b.EP.IP: Fold to 3-Bet in EP when the 3-bet comes from someone behind you
Fold_vs_3b.EP.Blind: Fold to 3-Bet in EP when the 3-bet comes from the blinds

I was wrong about the name when u face the 3b coming from the blinds (it specifically says blind, rather than OOP as i suggested). But the IP definition applies.

However, since HM2 do not make the opposition IP/blind anymore, and they use IP/OOP instead I guess they changed to to the more logical approach, but Im not sure....

[udbrky]

IP/OOP means you or the person who's hud stats you're viewing.

So if they cbet and then fold IP, it means the players all checked to them, they cbet and got raised and fold.

fold vs 3b ep ip = they're ip in ep and get 3bet by someone that they have position on - i.e. the blinds.

[Oracle3001]

And to clarify is fold vs 3bet, only when you were the one that raised first in?

Cos if not, fold vs 3bet IP could count towards both of these situation, which are quite different...(i) Player X on the button, MP opens, CO 3bet, Player X folds to 3bet and (ii) Player X opens on the button, SB 3bets, Player X folds.

[udbrky]

vs 3bet is only where you opened and got 3bet. It's not vs a cold 4bet opportunity.

[JSANz]

i've been creating some popups and ive noticed that the 4b ip/foldvs3bIP/call3bIP (and its OOP version) do not add up as they should in any position. The foldvs3b seem to be swapped, so that in order to get the 100% you need to put together 4bip/foldvs3bOOP/callvs3bIP.

Please check it and confirm whether this is due to foldvs3bip/oop being swapped or has something to do with the ip/oop definition.

[udbrky]

I emailed zep for clarification - I get confused with the IP/OOP and don't want to misspeak.

[Oracle3001]

"I get confused with the IP/OOP and don't want to misspeak."

That kind of says it all...how do you expect your customers to know / remember.

[gareth336]

I've had a similar problem to JSanz.

I've been looking at how the CO reacts to 3bets, whether they fold/call/4bet both IP and OOP, but when you add the stats up (and the bracketed number seems to confirm this also) it's as though Fold to 3bet IP should go with call 3bet oop and 4bet oop and that Fold to 3bet OOP should go with call 3bet IP and 4bet IP, which makes no sense to me!! This also leaves us clueless as to which group actually gives us the IP or OOP stats!

I think the stats need a good checking over because I feel as though quite a few aren't giving us the numbers they should do. Plus I really think we need a definitive HM2 stats definition page (apologies if this has been added recently, I haven't seen one). I know we can click 'stats' on the reports page and get some definitions, but there are only a few of the very basic ones. Some of the new, more complex stats can easily be interpreted in different ways by different people and cause big problems. I think this is really important!

[alllala]

Due to an error in a database Table the IP/OOP vs 3bet stats by Position are all wrong. The Problem is known and were are waiting for the fix (for HM1 and HM2)

[Sarek]

This is being worked on

[melles]

"HM2 stats definition page"

This is critical and we need to know how they are calculated.
Right know we are lucky if the developer know what some stats mean.
Have been asking for it since beta but somehow its not being released.
Everyone that works with HM should have a excel scheet or something were they have all the stats or?
Should not be so hard to release a definition page ask the developer they must have some kind of list and what it mean and how its calculated.

[udbrky]

Created some internal discussion regarding this.

[Sharkament]

Created some internal discussion regarding this.

Has this ever been clarified yet?

I just upgraded from HM1 to HM2, and i also imported my popups, however the meanings of these things seem to have been swapped.

FOLD TO 3B.IP is now FOLD TO 3B FROM IP.

both these things are in my mind the complete opposite.
Where the first one you fold to a 3bet while In Position vs the 3bettor, in the 2nd one you fold to an "in-position-3bet".

If i'm correct here its unacceptable that the upgrade just swapped them, being different things, while theyre still in my custom config.

[CJCJ]

I've had a similar problem to JSanz.
Some of the new, more complex stats can easily be interpreted in different ways by different people and cause big problems. I think this is really important!
+1

[Patvs]

I sent this question again to the Tech team to reply to.

[CJCJ]

Has this ever been clarified yet?

I just upgraded from HM1 to HM2, and i also imported my popups, however the meanings of these things seem to have been swapped.

FOLD TO 3B.IP is now FOLD TO 3B FROM IP.

both these things are in my mind the complete opposite.
Where the first one you fold to a 3bet while In Position vs the 3bettor, in the 2nd one you fold to an "in-position-3bet".

Look at this thread I recently created: http://forums.holdemmanager.com/feature-requests-feedback/204321-hm2-tot-fold-3bet-blinds-tot-fold-3bet-ip.html#post1015001. So that:

1) Somebody openraises, another guy makes the 3Bet (from SB or BB) and the openraiser folds:

HM2: "TOT Fold to 3Bet from blinds" ---------------------> HM1: Fold to 3Bet IP


2) Somebody openraises, another guy makes the 3Bet (in position) and the openraiser folds:

HM2: "TOT Fold to 3Bet from ip" -------------------------> HM1: Fold to 3Bet OOP



"FOLD TO 3B.IP is now FOLD TO 3B FROM IP":
"Where the first one you fold to a 3bet while In Position vs the 3bettor, ...
The only way you can make "fold to a preflop 3bet while YOU are in position" is when anyone of the blinds 3bets you, (cause if you don´t fold preflop you will be in position vs the 3bettor in the flop, turn and river), so postflop you´ll be IP vs the 3bettor.


In the other hand, the only way for you to "fold to a preflop 3bet while YOU are in position vs the 3bettor is when you openraise, face a 3bet from a player in BTN or an earlier position, you´ll be OOP in the postflop.

I think that whenever we talk about IP or OOP, we are always meaning the position if minimum two players get to see the flop after the preflop action. So IP and OOP are referred to the postflop.

Whenever a player considers doing/facing a preflop action considers as well his postflop position.

Anyway, if you consider I´m wrong tell me, cause I´d like to know it.

[udbrky]

This has been elevated to make sure we are answering correctly on the definition.

[MartinBKK]

This has been elevated to make sure we are answering correctly on the definition.

Any updates? Kind of important this

[shuttle]

Also interested in a clarification of the meaning of these stats.

[udbrky]

The stats are now showing like this:

call 3bet from IP
call 3bet from blinds

from IP = person 3betting you has position on you.
from blinds = person 3betting you is in the blinds and thus, you have position on them.

[shuttle]

Thanks for the clarification :)

[CJCJ]

"Somebody openraises from UTG, Hero 3bets from BTN and the openraiser calls".

Is it called "Call 3bet from blinds"?

PD: I can´t understand why the developers don´t just named them as in HM1, "IP/ OOP". It´s so easy ...

[DogNamedBluff]

"Somebody openraises from UTG, Hero 3bets from BTN and the openraiser calls".

Is it called "Call 3bet from blinds"?
TOT Call 3bet from Opponent IP

[CJCJ]

Ty!