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alllala
11-16-2011, 09:55 AM
You can skip this entry and read my second post in this thread which is more accurate.


I use 1.12.06 and tested the 2 following HH in a blank DB. Unfortunatly I had to find out that there are serious issues with the vs 3bet stats by Position vs Position. I urge you to look in the matter and fix it fast, because fault stats may cost me a lot of money.

In the following HH Villain 4bets as MP the 3B of Hero in the SB. Therefore his Raise_vs_3b.MP.blind should be 100%. But instead the Hud (and the All Active Player Stats) show that he 4betet against a 3bet was made from IP (Raise_vs_3b.MP.ip), although it should count as a 4bet against a 3bet made from OOP. (Raise_vs_3b.MP.blind)

***** Hand History for Game 10967799664 ***** (Party)
$200.00 USD NL Texas Hold'em - Saturday, October 08, 09:42:56 ET 2011
Table Table 194984 (No DP) (Real Money)
Seat 4 is the button
Seat 6: JKWS1974 ( $183.85 USD )
Seat 3: TheCaretaker ( $63.00 USD )
Seat 4: caesarius ( $455.19 USD )
Seat 2: coffeedevil ( $250.42 USD )
Seat 1: imarflex ( $200.00 USD )
Seat 5: umirinbrah ( $294.25 USD )
umirinbrah posts small blind [$1.00 USD].
JKWS1974 posts big blind [$2.00 USD].
** Dealing down cards **
imarflex folds
coffeedevil folds
TheCaretaker raises [$5.00 USD]
caesarius raises [$15.00 USD]
umirinbrah folds
JKWS1974 folds
TheCaretaker raises [$58.00 USD]
caesarius calls [$48.00 USD]
** Dealing Flop ** [ 7h, 7s, 4c ]
** Dealing Turn ** [ Js ]
** Dealing River ** [ Tc ]
caesarius shows [Jh, Ah ]
TheCaretaker shows [7c, 7d ]
TheCaretaker wins $126.00 USD from main pot


In the next HH Villain 4bets from the CO a 3bet made from the Button. So he raises a 3bet made from IP but instead the stats count it as if the 3bet came from OOP. (the action should appear in the Raise_vs_3b.CO.ip stat but instead it shows in the Raise_vs_3b.CO.blind stat).
About a year ago i already informed you guys about the COvsBU issue and i was let believe it had already been fixed.



***** Hand History for Game 10996541377 ***** (Party)
$200.00 USD NL Texas Hold'em - Sunday, October 16, 11:01:30 ET 2011
Table Table 194966 (No DP) (Real Money)
Seat 4 is the button
Seat 4: ALLffac ( $161.80 USD )
Seat 5: BatPooCrazy ( $423.70 USD )
Seat 1: Infamous666 ( $69.33 USD )
Seat 3: TheCaretaker ( $75.13 USD )
Seat 6: achillezzzzz ( $239.85 USD )
Seat 2: mribdude ( $172.87 USD )
BatPooCrazy posts small blind [$1.00 USD].
achillezzzzz posts big blind [$2.00 USD].
** Dealing down cards **
Infamous666 folds
mribdude folds
TheCaretaker raises [$5.00 USD]
ALLffac raises [$10.00 USD]
BatPooCrazy folds
achillezzzzz folds
TheCaretaker raises [$70.13 USD]
ALLffac calls [$65.13 USD]
** Dealing Flop ** [ 2d, 4d, 2h ]
** Dealing Turn ** [ 8c ]
** Dealing River ** [ 5d ]
ALLffac shows [Jh, As ]
TheCaretaker shows [Ad, Kd ]
TheCaretaker wins $150.26 USD from main pot

alllala
11-16-2011, 10:17 AM
I think i found out the reason for the error in the Stats. It seems itīs not a problem with the calculation of the stats, instead an error in the database table "PKH.positiontype_id_firstthreebet".

Actually I already pointed it out about two months ago in this thread (http://forums.holdemmanager.com/manager-bugs/125521-positiontype_id_firstthreebet-doesn-t-work-right-bigblind.html), although then i only believed that the the DB table was only compromised for the Big Blind. But back then i questioned the reliability of the DB tabel.
I was told that the question was forwarded to Roy without an answer until today.


To Prove my Point i add this custom report, with the two DB table "PKH.positiontype_id_firstraise" and "PKH.positiontype_id_firstthreebet" as Fieldexpressions. Basically it shows you in which position the openraise was made (Villain or Hero) and from which position the 3bet came (Hero or Villain). Values are from 0 (=SB) to 5 (=BU). It appears about 10% of the DB Table "PKH.positiontype_id_firstthreebet" Values are wrong. The error shows itself when the Position for the 3bet is the same as the openraise.
I wonīt post any HH for this as you can use the Custom Report and try it out for yourself in any DB.



<Report Name="Wrong firstthreebet DB table " OrderByExpression="firstraiser ASC" Version="1.1">
<Groupings><Grouping FieldExpression="PKH.positiontype_id_firstraiser" ColumnName="firstraiser" ColumnHeader="firstraiser">
</Grouping>
<Grouping FieldExpression="PKH.positiontype_id_firstthreebet" ColumnName="firstthreebet" ColumnHeader="firstthreebet">
</Grouping></Groupings>
<Stats>
<Stat StatName="Big Blinds per 100" />
</Stats></Report>

alllala
11-16-2011, 10:24 AM
This is a serious fuck up guys.

OMG

I investigated the matter further and now i realized that every respond to a 3bet that ends with a Reraise (Playeraction: RR,RRR of the Player that openraised and faced the 3bet) leads to a wrong entry in the Database Table "PKH.positiontype_id_firstthreebet" (the Postion entry will be the same as the Position of the Openraise - "PKH.positiontype_id_firstraise" - except there was a Cold4bet between the response).

Only if the response ends with a Fold or Call (Playeraction: RF,RC,R,RRF,RRC of the Openraiser) it is correctly added to the Database Table.

That means all the distinction for the vs3bet stat from EP,MP and CO (wheater the 3bet came from OOP or IP) is basically wrong.

And I relied on these stats the hole three years I am using HEM, and they seem to be faulty all the time :mad:

netsrak
11-17-2011, 07:08 AM
I'll forward it for a qualified response.

alllala
11-17-2011, 12:06 PM
I'll forward it for a qualified response.

In another Thread to this topic, I was told something like this two months ago. Until today I am awaiting an answer.

roy.goncalves
11-17-2011, 01:34 PM
Hi, thanks for finding this problem and sorry about the delay in getting it resolved - it has now been fixed and will be in the next HM1 build and either the next or the following HM2 build depending on release timing. This only affected hands where there were 4bets preflop but in those cases it would get the name of the first 3 better and the position of the first 3 better wrong and instead use the 4betters name and position. If the hand was then 5 bet it would fix itself so it is only 4 bet situations (and 6bet, 8bet etc) that are wrong

alllala
11-17-2011, 02:02 PM
...
This only affected hands where there were 4bets.....

Well this is the most interesting part of it all, and very important for my decision making. Iīm looking forward to the fix (although it means i have to reimport everything again - what i just did for 1.12.06).

Also, I want to let you know, that there is something wrong, too, with "PKH.positiontype_id_firstraise" and "PKH.positiontype_id_firstthreebet" when there is a LimpRaiser involved in the Hand.

roy.goncalves
11-17-2011, 02:06 PM
Well this is the most interesting part of it all, and very important for my decision making. Iīm looking forward to the fix (although it means i have to reimport everything again - what i just did for 1.12.06).

Also, I want to let you know, that there is something wrong, too, with "PKH.positiontype_id_firstraise" and "PKH.positiontype_id_firstthreebet" when there is a LimpRaiser involved in the Hand.

Those should both be fixed as well but I'll double check

Thanks
Roy

alllala
11-18-2011, 09:57 AM
Is there a way to be notified when the new release is ready to download? Can i subscribe somewhere for email notifcation?

moadgih
11-18-2011, 10:58 AM
related? 3bp Turn cb stat can be over 100% sometimes... LOL

alllala
11-18-2011, 11:32 PM
related? 3bp Turn cb stat can be over 100% sometimes... LOL

nope. this is another new old Bug. But it will be known soon

alllala
12-02-2011, 07:33 PM
Well, Roy told here this issue is fixed since over 2 weeks now. I know there are other issues with HM1 you want to correct them, too, before releasing anything, but i really would like to know when you plan to release 1.12.07, and what is planed to be included.

Patvs
12-03-2011, 06:43 AM
http://www.holdemmanager.com/Downloads/HmUpdate_.07%20Internal.exe

alllala
12-03-2011, 11:55 AM
http://www.holdemmanager.com/Downloads/HmUpdate_.07%20Internal.exe

The Description acknowledges only other issues fixed. No mentioning of any fixed stats.

So what is really new in there?

roy.goncalves
12-03-2011, 12:07 PM
The changes I mentioned should all be in there since this internal build was just recently compiled. I don't know if they have been 100% tested (which is why it is still internal) but if you create a new DB and reimport the issues should be fixed and some, like the 3bet only stats in the hud should be fixed without a reimport

alllala
12-03-2011, 04:55 PM
the vs 3bet by Position stats seems fixed. also the 3bet pot stats do work right now, as far as i tested.

But there is still the issue with CB Turn and River 3bet Pot when the CB is Raised (it will be counted as 2 Contibets)

And the issues with the vs Missed CB stats (these are so completly wrong that it might take more time to fix them - but it might work without reimport, since here is clearly a wrong formula at work )

so if you could make an internal build that fixes the Turn and River CB 3b pot Bug, Iīm good to go for reimporting.

roy.goncalves
12-03-2011, 06:29 PM
We're still looking into this ones

Thanks,
Roy

alllala
12-03-2011, 07:14 PM
I donīt know how different the formula for Hud and Report stats are, but shouldnīt take the Turn and River CB 3b pot bug fix like 5 minutes?
Which Database Table do you use for these two stats in the HUD? The "PHMISC.sawflopastype_id = 4" and the "PH.***cbet***" Table would be all you need for this.

Whatīs the problem?

roy.goncalves
12-04-2011, 12:12 PM
Hud stats use compiled stats, report stats use the actual hand info like PHMISC

When I say "We're still looking into these ones" it just means it's an open bug ticket. First the bug is verified, hands are grabbed that show the problem and then it's passed on to a developer.

The bug has been verified and now we're working on the fix

Roy

roy.goncalves
12-05-2011, 05:55 PM
The CBet 3bet pots for turn and river bug has been found and it won't require a reimport. I can't say how quickly we'll get an internal build out since other work might still be in progress but shouldn't be long. We're moving on to the missed cbet stats now to check the issue there

Roy

alllala
12-05-2011, 06:03 PM
When you know, whether or not a reimport for the missed cbet stats will be needed please post it here.

So i start/delay my reimport with the internal fix.

alllala
12-11-2011, 06:09 PM
Any news about the vs missed CB

and contains 12.07 the the Turn and River CB 3b pot fix?

alllala
12-16-2011, 12:52 PM
Just so you know i wonīt give up until the "vs missed CB" stats are fixed, I say - Hi there.

alllala
12-19-2011, 02:56 PM
Well, you released 12.08, but i guess the "Bet Vs missed CB" issue isnīt fixed?

Patvs
12-20-2011, 12:13 AM
.08 was only released to fix an issue with the registration server

roy.goncalves
12-20-2011, 01:58 AM
I'm working on the missed cbet issue right now - do you have specific examples of hands where it is missing or miscalculating this or any other details about the problem? Trying to duplicate the problem you are seeing can be time consuming so any help would lead to a faster resolution.

Thanks,
Roy

roy.goncalves
12-20-2011, 02:02 AM
Actually I think I found a big part of the problem just after posting that. If you have any more details let me know because it will help make sure it is 100% resolved

roy.goncalves
12-20-2011, 02:10 AM
Was it mainly an issue with the Bet vs missed cbet IP on flop and Bet vs missed cbet oop on turn stats? Basically the actions following a skipped flop cbet? These 2 stats incorrectly included limped pots and 4Bet+ pots in HM1

It seems like turn and river were pretty much correct although they included 4bet+ situations and those have now been removed.

That sound about right? I had been looking at this for a long time before trying to test it on a limped pot situation but then the light bulb went on and I saw the error

Roy

alllala
12-20-2011, 08:50 AM
I have posted so many example HHs. You can find them here http://forums.holdemmanager.com/hud-general/161061-bet-when-checked-stat.html#post807701

The Issue is the following:

Wrongly counted to the vs missed CB stats are...

delayed CB
when the Contibeter is raised
or any limped pot.

To me it looks like these stats use false patterns of action on each street.

so every Check Flop and Bet Turn will add to these stats (same with Bet Flop Check Turn Bet River)
also every Bet/Call Bet/Fold Bet/Raise (at least as contibeter)

I hope i could clarify it a little bit, but this might not be all because I have to leave right now.

Will be back later if you need more help.

roy.goncalves
12-20-2011, 01:40 PM
ok thanks, I think I got all the false cases removed but will go over one more time

alllala
12-20-2011, 01:53 PM
Sounds promising.

Will a reimport be necessary? If so, maybe you could release an internal build that I might test it myself (just to be sure)

Does your fix include the "vs missed CB" stats for the Active Player Detail Windows (they might have a different name).
And will these stats in the future exclude 4+ or 3+ bet situations. I would probably prefer that 3+bet situation are excluded.

alllala
12-21-2011, 05:34 PM
Any news?

Patvs
12-22-2011, 01:11 AM
Roy added a fix, which is included in the next update (1.12.09)
It's already included in 1.12.08-internal: MEGAUPLOAD - The leading online storage and file delivery service (http://www.megaupload.com/?d=ALVLGAJ3)

alllala
12-22-2011, 04:55 AM
Will a reimport be necassary for the fix, and when do you guys plan to release 12.09?

alllala
12-22-2011, 06:32 AM
I tested the 12.08 internal and unfortunately the Fix also excludes some legit situations.

EDIT: Now I realize, that 3bet Pots are excluded for "vs missed CB stats", hence my assumption something is still wrong.
Is this on purpose only to add Preflop onetime raised situations? Will this also be the case for the Player Action Details stats?

Anyway, I like the idea to separate the "vs missed CB stats" between different Preflop situations, but there should be at least the "vs missed CB stats" for 3B bet pots (as these are the situations you lose or win the most BigBlinds).

I donīt know how much work it would be to add the "vs missed CB 3B pot" stats, but they would be really really useful.

Maybe Roy you could take your precious time and give it to us as a present for christmas, or consider it as a reimbursement for almost 2 years of wrong "vs missed CB" stats.

roy.goncalves
12-27-2011, 05:45 PM
I took out the 3bet+ pot situations because it seemed like that was what people wanted. I'll see what I can do with adding a 3bet pot version of the stat but can't promise anything because 1) it is a lot more involved to add a new hud stat in HM1 vs correct an existing one and 2) it is considered a new feature and I have about 50 of those on my plate right now and all of those fall behind bug fixes.

Thanks,
Roy

alllala
12-28-2011, 09:20 PM
Well, right now I would be satisfied if you could release the fix for the bet vs missed CB.
12.09 is taking some time.

Or does the fix not require a reimport of the hands?

roy.goncalves
12-28-2011, 10:06 PM
It will require a reimport. I'm not exactly sure how much longer until we release .09 but I think it's about a week away based on some internal emails. You can use the .08 internal build linked above to reimport and you should be all set