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steveisnot
11-09-2011, 11:15 AM
Hello,

I'm trying to work out how to use the hud stats to determine if players are winning hand by going to showdown (they really had a hand) or they are winning hands without showing them (betting to win).

I'm guessing it's all in the showdown stats, but i is fik and can't work out which ones and how they relate to one another.

thanks,

steveisnot

Patvs
11-10-2011, 03:10 AM
Graphs :
Check the showdown winnings line vs non-showdown winnings line in the graph.
Showdown winnings line: this line should go UP, since a winning player has the BEST had more often than not when he goes to showdown.
Non-Showdown winnings line:
-if the line goes UP (very rare) this player is always making his opponent fold. Only possible if you bluff a LOT, and often make the better hand to fold
-if the line is nearly horizontal, you're making enough bluffs, enough c-bets, enough successful double barrels yourself, to counter all those hands where you're forced to fold. (ideal line)
-if the line goes DOWN (really normal for low stakes), you shouldn't worry about it, if your overall winrate is still positive. But it means you're investing too much money (for example in seeing a flop, calling a c-bet) where you still fold on a later street. And you're not making up for those losses by winning the same amount of similar pots yourself.



Stats:
Won at Showdown:
Won when saw Flop:
Went to Showdown: if a player goes to showdown 80% (example) it means he'll never give up on ANY draw, overpair, toppair.. probably even midpair. He simply does never fold.

steveisnot
11-10-2011, 06:04 AM
Hello Patvs,

Thanks for you reply. Using the graphs is very handy to have learnt. Cheers.

But I'm still confused about using the HUD to check whilst playing. If I'm looking at the 'Went to show down' number and it's 80% does that mean they folded 20% or won without showing 20% of the time?

Guess what I'm after is a 'won without show down' stat. Or can you work that out by using a combination of two stats. Something in steel maybe? Win rate against won $ at showdown?

Thanks,

steveisnot

netsrak
11-12-2011, 08:43 AM
here are our stat definitions:
http://faq.holdemmanager.com/questions/95/stat+definitions

faskianus
11-14-2012, 09:53 AM
this is a good question. When my opponent saw 70% of the flops, 40% of the turns and 15% of the rivers, I wanna know why.. Now I try to conclude from his aggression factor. When that AG is high I believe many people fold against him.. But is there a stat (for in my opponent-hud) that says: Won Without Showdown..? It would be very handy!!

tnx!

Patvs
11-14-2012, 03:12 PM
The saw turn stat is only based on the hands where the opponent saw the flop.
And saw river, is only based on the hands where the opponent saw the turn.
So if there is a big gap between the stats, the opponent is always pushed off his hand (for example an opponent that sees nearly every hand, but is folds to any bet on the flop if he didn't connect.

AG gives you very limited info (in relation to saw flop, saw turn, saw river) because FOLDING doesn't affect AG.
AG only tells you if the opponent plays passively (calling/checking), or aggressively (betting/raising).


There are no won without showdown stats.... but HM2 does have many 'success' stats:
Cbet Flop Success

And there are WonSD when RAISED flop/turn/river stats.

faskianus
11-14-2012, 09:03 PM
ok, but is there a "TOT bet success"?

I still wonder how I can see if my opponent is pushing people of their hands in that session...

thnx

Patvs
11-15-2012, 12:02 AM
HM2 has the stat 'Won hand%' in the Misc stat category.

And in the Flop category there is: Won When Saw Flop.
in Turn-> Won When Saw Turn
etc.

faskianus
11-15-2012, 10:00 AM
HM2 has the stat 'Won hand%' in the Misc stat category.

And in the Flop category there is: Won When Saw Flop.
in Turn-> Won When Saw Turn
etc.

so with these stats i see if my opponent is pushing people of a lot off their hands in that session..?


BTW: the open raise stat in the pop up window.. u know where i can find it? its gone since the popup window update..

Patvs
11-15-2012, 11:30 PM
No it shows how often an opponent WINS a hand when he plays a hand.
And how often he wins the hand, when he sees a flop, etc.

So a player with VPIP = 8%, will only play premium hands, so it's logical he wins most of these hands.
However, a player with VPIP = 40% shouldn't win most of his hands. So with a stat like "WonSD when raised flop"
and the other stats you can determine at which stage in the hand he successfully gets his opponent to fold.

Again, he may only make this specific move with monster hands. So ideally you add all these stats to a 'popup' so you can see the sample size on these stats.



Open raise: you can add TOT RFI (in the RFI/Steal category)