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poker nuuuts
10-26-2011, 10:14 PM
How about implementing a hand-grabber for bodog, like pt3 for example, instead of having to purchase some 3rd party software to do it!

Veteran68
10-27-2011, 12:27 AM
They had one under development for HM1, before Bodog asked them to cease and they complied.

Bodog is on a mission to stop all HUDs and trackers, so you'll always be chasing them. They've already started rolling out changes to thwart the datamining and results reporting sites, and trackers are next on their list. At this point I don't know that the tracker market at Bodog is going to be viable enough to commit resources to it, since Bodog seems intent on running out solid/winning players (the type most likely to use a tracker in the first place).

poker nuuuts
10-27-2011, 04:23 AM
thats just weak, pt3 beat u to the ftp multi entrys, which caused a shit ton of heat for u guys, pt3 beat u to the cake hud, and u guys will never even bother with bodog, meanwhile pt3 has supported them for years...weak excuse bro

Veteran68
10-27-2011, 12:45 PM
thats just weak, pt3 beat u to the ftp multi entrys, which caused a shit ton of heat for u guys, pt3 beat u to the cake hud, and u guys will never even bother with bodog, meanwhile pt3 has supported them for years...weak excuse bro
Weak excuse, bro? Who's excusing anything? I'm not "them" if you're referring to HM support. I'm simply stating the fact that HM decided to honor Bodog's request while PT did not. I have a much bigger problem with Bodog on this issue than I do HM.

You also are pointing out what I think are important differences in the philosophies of both companies. From the outside perspective, HM has historically held their relationships with poker sites in much higher regard. Cake is very tracker/HUD unfriendly and generally bans them entirely. HM engaged with Cake to work out a HUD mechanism that would at least allow players to track their own stats, which Cake agreed to and actually blessed. Did PT do the same? I don't know, but I doubt it. When Bodog asked HM to stop their grabber development, they complied (probably assuming that they could eventually work out something similar to what they did with Cake, but that doesn't look like it'll ever happen). Conversely, PT seems to not care so much what the sites think. If it's not a blatant violation spelled out precisely in the TOS, PT favors the players over the sites. Arguments can be made for/against both sides -- I'm not picking a side here, just pointing out how the difference in approach explains a lot of the business decisions they make.

Finally, PT and HM are aimed (or at least were in the past) at squarely different audiences. In describing where you think PT3 has the advantage, you conveniently fail to mention innovations that HM has made over PT3. While both products have since evolved into a large overlap in functionality, PT had strength in tournaments when HM was king of cash. PT has always had stronger tournament support, HM has always had stronger cash support. PT also had support problems in its earlier days, whereas HM with its smaller audience at the time had very quick and personalized support from Roy and co., at least before they got so huge. And how do you think HM got so big? Why do you think so many people left PT in droves despite its much longer time in market? I used both and based on my cash-primary focus at the time, HM was much better for me. When I go on a MTT/SNG phase, I miss some things from PT3.

Bottom line is that both produces have their strengths and weaknesses, both innovate in different ways, and both spend a lot resources playing catch-up with the other. The market is far better off having competition that keeps each other motivated and in-check. If you prefer PT and their business philosophy, then by all means use them. If they have a feature that you think HM should have, you should respectfully point that out and request it. But to bash/promote either product on the other's support forums -- especially in an uninformed fashion -- is in bad taste and diminishes any respect for your position.

/end rant

poker nuuuts
10-27-2011, 07:08 PM
cool story...anyway in one of my other posts i recommended getting both if your serious about poker (bottom line we probably agree on the bottom line), im a tourney player and for the most part i def like hem more, but their support sucks (compared to pt3 at present, which is what matters not the past bro), and i will bash it at times hoping they get it together (cant improve without negative feedback too)...there was absolutely NO excuse for the lack of support for the muli entry mtts when ftp had those HUGE pools, and if u wanted a hud, u had to go buy pt3 cuz they were on top of it, just for one example, not about to rant tho. ill end it with I like hem over pt3 in just about every aspect of a poker tracking program, i get frustrated that i even need to open pt3, and vent, nothing personal to anybody, im sure the hem staff and support are genius...me being human, im going to contradict myself all the time, if you dont your just lying to urself.

poker nuuuts
10-27-2011, 09:35 PM
i want to just add my apologies for coming off as a prick to anybody, i was venting a bit and ill keep it cooler from now on, because when it comes down to it, i honestly have nothing but luv and respect for the entire hem community, no homo =p

udbrky
10-28-2011, 08:07 PM
Apology accepted on our part.

Please remember that "hey, I would like this feature _____________" to be added will go way better than "#&#&%#& you suck!"

As the former is specific and helps actually implement something, whereas the latter is just too vague to be helpful.

We came out with a Cake HUD at the same time - when they allowed it.

Bodog is a tricky issue. I know that a lot of people have issues with BDHG and the other upstart has apparently abandoned his project already.

And we all have to wait and see what all changes will be made with Bodog in the new year.

poker nuuuts
10-28-2011, 09:08 PM
yea i understand, some of my vents were a bit under the influence but thats not an excuse at all, i admit when i am wrong and i was wrong to behave that way on these forums more then once, and i vow to cut that childish stuff out, as for the bodog hand grabber, i never purchased it because i have pt3...i would rather use hem/hm2 but id rather use pt3 then buy the hand grabber, which is fine, if hem never supports bodog i wont cry about it anymore lol, id just view it as a bonus if it happened. there is an issue with the pt3 hud though not too bad, i seem to have to close and reopen a table when moved to a new tourney table, to get the hud up, and depending on the settings, sometimes the hud could disappear when its my turn to act, but if i click anywhere on the table it re appears. i would def anticipate a bodog hud to be tricky and if they are against it i couldnt blame hem to focus its efforts on the more friendly sites

awesemo
01-20-2012, 06:31 PM
Hey, just wanted to bump this thread. It would be awesome is HM2 implemented a way to track Bovada's and Bodog's anonymous tables. There is already software like this available, but it would be nice to have HM2's additional features like keeping track of results and statistics. Thanks.

Patvs
01-20-2012, 08:15 PM
We can't grab the Bodog hands (get the handhistories) anymore.
Unless someone** writes a new handgrabber that uses an exploit in the Bodog software.
See youtube video: Bodog Anonymous Tables Hacked: Security Through Obscurity - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctd9SJz_igw)

**We're not going to do it, since that's always been against Bodog's rules and regulations. (requiring a third party program like Idleminer)
If a third party creates this, theoretically we can add support to IMPORT the handhistories... but that's about it we can do for Bodog.

We're NOT going to add additional support (example: session-only HUD) for Bodog, since this is also now against their rules and regulations.

Cake had a similar anti-software policy but they've now radically changed that. Your best bet is Bodog also comes to realize multi-tabling (profitable) grinders are actually good for the network and revert their changes.

awesemo
01-23-2012, 12:55 PM
We're NOT going to add additional support (example: session-only HUD) for Bodog, since this is also now against their rules and regulations.

Cake had a similar anti-software policy but they've now radically changed that. Your best bet is Bodog also comes to realize multi-tabling (profitable) grinders are actually good for the network and revert their changes.

I think they still allow HUDs. Let me quote a section of the TOS of Bovada.


6.3. No Player Assistance Programs. Use by players of external player assistance programs ("EPA Programs") which are designed to provide players with an unfair advantage over their opponents are expressly prohibited. We define EPA Programs as including computer software and non-software-based databases or profiles (e.g., web sites and subscription services) and we consider access to or the ability to gather data or information on other players by any means that would not be accessible via their own first-hand experience (i.e. observation of game play) to be "unfair". We reserve the right to close Accounts and void any and all winnings in such Accounts if we establish, in our reasonable discretion, the use of an EPA Program.

Not Excessive
01-23-2012, 06:45 PM
I don't think Bodog has any intention of providing a mechanism whereby any of the HM/PT style programs can be used. In this article, Bodog Network’s Jonas Ödman Doesn’t Hate Winning Players | Online Poker News (http://calvinayre.com/2012/01/23/poker/bodog-network-vp-jonas-odman-doesnt-hate-winning-players/) Ödman indicates the only players Bodog is interested in are those who regularly make additional deposits (losing players?). To achieve this, Bodog is moving, or has moved, to all anonymous tables which stops HM/PT from providing even a basic HUD, imo.

Patvs
01-24-2012, 01:37 AM
by any means that would not be accessible via their own first-hand experience


But they don't save handhistories.
And they screwed Idleminer / BPHG (or /will screw) by making changes to their software to PREVENT software to grab these handhistories.

kamachos
01-25-2012, 07:41 PM
I have a working handgrabber for Bodog, is HEM willing to parse and import the format of the hands?

Patvs
01-25-2012, 08:10 PM
Email us a handhistory to support@holdemmanager.com

KrischanXXL
09-13-2012, 08:11 AM
After a softwareupdate Bodog now creates Hand Histories again (downloadable one week after playing). Can you please add support?

Patvs
09-13-2012, 09:24 AM
We have a feature request ticket for this to support this handhistory formatting, but I have no eta when this will be implemented.

drexah
09-13-2012, 04:56 PM
We have a feature request ticket for this to support this handhistory formatting, but I have no eta when this will be implemented.

i will just say that when this feature (downloadable hand histories) was implemented by bovada a few months ago, i immediately posted on the forums/emailed hem/etc. and was told this would be worked on. also at the same time i sent these hand histories to a couple different 'hand history websites' who had absolutely no problem getting the HH to function within 1-3 days. i just can't find an excuse that would take you guys so long to add support for this. a little more than 'there's a request ticket for this' reply would be great.

fozzy71
09-14-2012, 11:43 AM
I will copy my reply from the other thread you posted in yesterday regarding this same topic:

This is low priority because we have many other high priority issues that affect a much larger portion of our customer base. We are also in the middle of a very major performance update and put all new site support (Bovada is not the same as Bodog, so it is a brand new site for us) on hold until after this new version of the software is released and stable.

Bovada decided they didn't want any trackers or HUDs and removed the hand histories completely so we stopped supporting them (the same as our competitors). They then decided to add support for the downloading of historical hands, so they could be imported to track previous results without having HUDs used on their site, but they chose to use a new and unsupported format. We can not put this above the priority of older site support issues (winning/yatahay, ENET, barrier, etc), that were written more than a year ago in some cases, just because they changed their mind.

JaredSP
09-27-2012, 09:14 PM
Theres now a site that imports the bovada hands and such and it works. pokeit.co But its a huge pain to sort through hands and stuff. Im sure if you asked your customers who use bodog/bovada we would pay extra to get hem to support the site. I just want to see my results listed, and be able to see all the hands listed and read/copy and paste them. We dont need hud support. Please think about pushing this feature to the front of the line and get it done. I know i would pay to get this done so im sure you can find others who will do the same(if thats the issue).

fozzy71
09-27-2012, 10:19 PM
That is not the issue. All of our bugs and feature requests are prioritized by the number of customers that it affects and this one is way down the list as a result. It is on our to-do list but I can not give any sort of ETA.

JaredSP
09-28-2012, 03:47 AM
Yes i understand that. And that sucks for the few of us that play there but cant some money move that up the priority list?

fozzy71
09-28-2012, 05:09 PM
Yes i understand that. And that sucks for the few of us that play there but cant some money move that up the priority list?

No, we are not going to charge or accept any additional money to increase the priority of a ticket. The cost of our software is a one time purchase and we have to prioritize issues based on the number of customers affected. This is on our to-do list but I simply can't give any ETA.

The assigned internal ticket # on this issue is HM-4603: Bovada hands importing request

I have added your email address to the ticket so we can notify you once we have implemented it. I have also added everyone else's email address in this thread to the ticket (added about 6 new customer emails) to make sure we have a good gauge of how popular this request is when comparing it to other requests so we can prioritize it accordingly.

pr0wler
10-11-2012, 05:08 AM
Definitely interested in this feature as well.

Patvs
10-11-2012, 08:06 AM
Definitely interested in this feature as well.


I added your email address to the ticket.

ShaunHunting
01-27-2013, 05:10 PM
I realize that HEM2 doesn't grab HHs from the Bodog software while playing, but can you manually import HHs after you get them from Bodog?

Patvs
01-27-2013, 05:58 PM
Bodog stopped writing handhistory files.

We have no plans on supporting Bovada as they don't allow a HUD.

We had plans to support the import of the requested handhistories to track your winnings/stats in HoldemManager. Ticket for this is HM-4603.

... but we will not support this format anymore.

Edit:

PokerTracker writes (and we agree with them)


Bodog approached us to support their new hand history format for tracking only without a HUD, we declined. Their hand histories include the hole cards for every player at the table. They only released these hand histories to stop claims of collusion due to the anonymous tables format. Providing the hole cards for everyone at the table changes the rules of the game, it is a bastardization of the traditional IWTSTH rule (I Want To See That Hand). We are not interested in redesigning our tracking system and database to develop a solution just for the Bodog handhistories.

DogNamedBluff
01-27-2013, 05:59 PM
I realize that HEM2 doesn't grab HHs from the Bodog software while playing, but can you manually import HHs after you get them from Bodog?
No