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iwannawon
06-25-2009, 04:34 PM
i originally posted in 2p2 STT forum but was directed here.

I'm not sure why it isn't sinking in, but i've read a bunch of posts about these HEM graphs and i'm still confused. Anyone willing to help me out?

I know many say not to mess w/ them, but from an academic standpoint what is it showing me? Is either line a representation of something 'actual'? And what's most important about the relationships between the lines? ... just if one is above the other or if one is trending up vs down, etc?

These are from the last several months. I know it's a small sample size. Also, how does the fact that they're STTs factor in? There are spots where you push ATC and when called certainly have the worst of it which i'm assuming wouldn't make up as much of a cash players data. I'm not sure if i can apply what i've read in other forums even if they're using the same graph.

Finally, how does this relate to $ and/or winning? BR-wise i'm down over this same timeframe. It's been a rough several months which is why I decided to start reviewing everything. How can I look this lucky if it's not translating into $? My ROI line basically never gets above 0. Until i'm ~10bb's i'm one of the tightest people i know. Especially at the stakes i play. Does the red line (left graph) really say i'm still getting the money in that bad? And having said that, is that to be expected in STTs where we're pushing so much w/ < 8-10 bbs?

http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee61/iwannawon/hemgraph.jpg

Thanks,

fozzy71
06-25-2009, 05:25 PM
I will forward this up the chain to someone more familiar with tourney's and their graph's.

fozzy71
06-25-2009, 06:55 PM
Did you import tournament summaries? Do you have many Uncompleted Tourneys in HM?

iwannawon
06-25-2009, 08:02 PM
i think so. the summaries were in the folder with my ftp hh's and were moved to the 'imported' folder once finished. i haven't spent much time in HEM yet so i'm not sure if everything is there/correct. one of the graphs above has an itm % line. not sure if it can determine that from the hh or if it uses the summary. since it doesn't show 0, i'm guessing they're in there correctly.

i don't remember how many uncompleted once there were. yes, there were a few but it didn't seem like a significant number.

Patvs
06-26-2009, 06:05 AM
Your first graphs brings up more questions than it shows actual answers.
It shows you're up 40 buyins after 700 SNGs, but your Show Luck Adjusted Winnings are -50 buyins. So there is a 90 buyins difference, which is a lot, but not uncommon.

Questions:
-Check Sharkscope if your winnings graphs matches your HEM graph.
-do you have any INCOMPLETE games in your dataview? (try to complete them manually! or otherwise delete them)
-do you only play single table SNGs? or also play 18/45/90 seat MTTs?
-Do you play regular, turbo or super turbo?
-Check your dataview if the payouts ($Won) are correct for your finish positions. (sometimes there are a couple of bugs which show you WON $0 by WINNING a 180 seat SNG, while you were actually playing a 90 seat SNG where you won 20x you buyin (by placing first).
-Check (by sorting the $EV Won column) where the $EV difference comes from. Look at some of the actual handhistories (of the games with a big $Won vs $EV Won difference) and look at the cEV Diff.
-Do you remember any of those hands? Winning a lot of coinflips, or hitting your draw, or sucking out (often doubling up early in a STT, or knocking out a player in the bubble?
-Which buyin level STTs are you playing? All one level, or do you frequently take shots at higher levels, or play all sorts of levels.


Second graph:
Your ITM% is very good. However your ROI and EV ROI are negative.
I don't understand why your BLUE LINE is negative, if you're UP 40 buyins. :confused:
Do you have rakeback? A ROI between 0 and -10% is actually normal. It just means you're playing a breakeven game, but can't compensate for the rake you have to pay.

The red line (left graph) could be a result of your playing style.
What are your finish position? Do you often just barely survive the bubble. (and NOT often finish in 1th place?) That could explain your high ITM% and low ROI.

What is your W$SD% and Avg Allin EV% at the REPORTS tab? both should be above 50%.

iwannawon
06-26-2009, 11:05 AM
thanks Patvs for the suggestions. i'll take a look. will be a good weekend project. i just started w/ HEM so i'm not sure where everything you mention is but i'll figure it out.

i don't subscribe to sharkscope and i'm not sure if the free searches will be able to filter the same results. i play a variety of sngs but i filtered specifically for turbo 9-man for these graphs (i think). unfortunately HEM doesn't seem to save my tourney result filter settings so it's possible i'm setting them inconsistently each time i go back in.

i don't have rakeback. my w$sd% says 53.6% but i don't see the allin ev%. i'll look for it in a bit. along w/ the rest.

i don't see how to show overall finish positions either but it's broken down by month. looks like first is between 11-18%, second 11-14%, third 12-16% which seems like it adds up to the ~40% the chart shows. i'll have to play around with the math to see how those relate to roi. i'm not sure what a good win % is. anything over 12% should be 'more than my share' on a 9-man table i think. but as you said, maybe that's not enough to cover rake.

thanks again for the help.

fozzy71
06-26-2009, 11:16 AM
I have asked the developer to post in here when he gets some free time.

Rvg72
06-27-2009, 11:34 AM
i originally posted in 2p2 STT forum but was directed here.

I'm not sure why it isn't sinking in, but i've read a bunch of posts about these HEM graphs and i'm still confused. Anyone willing to help me out?

I know many say not to mess w/ them, but from an academic standpoint what is it showing me? Is either line a representation of something 'actual'? And what's most important about the relationships between the lines? ... just if one is above the other or if one is trending up vs down, etc?

These are from the last several months. I know it's a small sample size. Also, how does the fact that they're STTs factor in? There are spots where you push ATC and when called certainly have the worst of it which i'm assuming wouldn't make up as much of a cash players data. I'm not sure if i can apply what i've read in other forums even if they're using the same graph.

Finally, how does this relate to $ and/or winning? BR-wise i'm down over this same timeframe. It's been a rough several months which is why I decided to start reviewing everything. How can I look this lucky if it's not translating into $? My ROI line basically never gets above 0. Until i'm ~10bb's i'm one of the tightest people i know. Especially at the stakes i play. Does the red line (left graph) really say i'm still getting the money in that bad? And having said that, is that to be expected in STTs where we're pushing so much w/ < 8-10 bbs?

http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee61/iwannawon/hemgraph.jpg

Thanks,

Well it does appear that you are "lucky" or possibly there is some other problem but the tourney EV functionality is pretty solid. Best thing to do is look at your tourney data view and look at the $EV for tourneys. Find one where the actual amount and $EV amount are very different and click on it. Then sort the hands by $EV Diff and see if the numbers make sense

Roy