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Ajax
06-16-2009, 11:25 AM
Why is the early position VPIP stat going up sometimes? I play 6-max. I put the EP, MP, CO, and BTN VPIP all into my HUD. I would expect that because I am playing 6-max, the EP VPIP would never calculate; but that is not what is happening.

BTN goes up when a player on the button puts money in (good). CO goes up when a player one off the button puts money in (good). MP goes up when a player two or three off the button puts money in (good). EP goes up sometimes as well (bad). I have not yet figured out exactly when EP VPIP goes up. Also, my understanding of these stats is that they are all preflop-only stats.

stretch00
06-16-2009, 11:38 AM
Well how many hnds do you play in EP? Not that many I hope right? So that stat really should move the least if your playing players that understand positional play.
Also I'm not 100% sure on how HM calculates Position ex; 9max when table looses a player, you take away 1 EP,if table looses 2 players you take away 1 EP & 1 MP, etc,etc,.
I also do not play 6 max,but if there is only 5 @ tbl I would only be consider it to have 1 EP,ex;you would have,
SB/BB/ UG,ep /CO lp/BU lp

Ajax
06-16-2009, 12:14 PM
From what I understand about how the stats work, at a 6-max table the EP VPIP stat should NEVER go up. But for some reason, it is going up at a 6-max table!:eek:

morny
06-16-2009, 06:36 PM
Theres 6 seats
1 EP
2 MP
3 CO
4 BTN
5 SB
6 BB

Why wouldnt EP vpip increase:confused:

Ajax
06-17-2009, 01:59 AM
I looked at it again, and this time I do think everything looked correct. The stats incremented as you indicated by the seat numbers in your post above:
Seat 1 EP VPIP goes up
Seat 2 MP VPIP goes up
Seat 3 CO VPIP goes up
Seat 4 BTN VPIP goes up
Seat 5 SB VPIP goes up
Seat 6 BB VPIP goes up

However, I thought what I had observed previously was that the HUD was calculating like this:
Seat 1 MP VPIP goes up
Seat 2 MP VPIP goes up
Seat 3 CO VPIP goes up
Seat 4 BTN VPIP goes up
Seat 5 SB VPIP goes up
Seat 6 BB VPIP goes up

The difference is in the first line, or seat #1.

MAYBE when I was watching it the first time one of the players was sitting out of the hand, and so when the UTG player opened the pot, MP VPIP went up, and even though it was correct, it did not look right to me since I thought all six players were playing. Not sure, but maybe that is what happened. Not sure.

morny
06-17-2009, 10:41 AM
Yes if its 5 handed the EP becomes MP and so on so basically the positions work from the button back to EP when there is less than 5 people and in the case where your 3 handed youd have Btn, SB and BB for example

DeepBlue
12-29-2009, 07:24 AM
Hey guys I have a question - I am seeing different interpretations of position for a 9-handed table between the Hands report using filters to isolate a certain position vs. the full ring position report!

For example, when I select all KQo hands facing unopened action in the hands report, for example, and I select Early position, I get a result of 65 hands, let's say.

But then when I look at the Position report and filter it for hand = KQo, EP2 and EP3 only add up to 30 (EP1 doesn't show since that's only for ten-handed tables, and FTP doesn't have ten-handed). To make it equal the total of 65, I have to also add in hands from MP1 and MP2!

Even more confusing is when I filter the hands report for position = middle. To get the same count from the position report, I have to add MP1, MP2, AND MP3!

How is it that MP1 and MP2 serve double duty as it were? Shouldn't EP equal EP1, EP2, and EP3, and MP equal MP1, MP2, and MP3?

The only thing I can think of is that Early and Middle are assigned flexibly, based on how many are seated at the table. So if there are eight seated, then the first two (UTG and UTG+1) are Early, and the next two are Middle. If there are nine, then the first two are Early, and the next three are Middle. If there are only six seated, then The first is early, the second is middle.

I really don't get why the data is stored like this (if that's the problem). And regardless, if the Position for Full Ring report CAN accurately discern WHICH seat someone is in, REGARDLESS of how many are dealed into the hand, why can't the Filters also allow this absolute seat-by-seat selection?

It makes it difficult if not impossible to correctly analyze stats from the Hands report this way, since it seems the only way I can analyze hands in each SEAT is to use the Position for Full Ring report and then arduously go in and filter by each hand, one by one, over and over.

Help, please!

netsrak
12-29-2009, 07:29 AM
As you mentioned the positions are assigned flexible depending on the number of players at the table.
There is an internal discussion about this but its very difficult to change and in the moment i don't see any chance of getting this changed in the nearer future.

DeepBlue
12-29-2009, 10:11 AM
Ok, I understand. But how does that Position (full ring) report work? (It's one I found here on the forums and downloaded.) It seems to know the difference. Or is it just "guessing" which seat exactly any particular action belonged to, and doesn't really know 100%?

Thanks for the quick response, btw, much appreciated.

netsrak
12-29-2009, 03:16 PM
What report are you referring to?

DeepBlue
12-29-2009, 11:32 PM
I am referring to the Full Ring Position report which I downloaded from here:

http://forums.holdemmanager.com/showthread.php?t=311&highlight=position+full+ring+report

netsrak
12-30-2009, 06:37 AM
This report is designed for FR, it just translates numbers to Positions.

This is how the positions are handled:
7 players: (1*MP, 2*EP) 0=BB, 1=SB, 2=BU, 3=CO, 4=MP, 5=EP, 6=EP
8 players: (2*MP, 2*EP) 0=BB, 1=SB, 2=BU, 3=CO, 4=MP, 5=MP, 6=EP, 7=EP
9 players: (2*MP, 3*EP) 0=BB, 1=SB, 2=BU, 3=CO, 4=MP, 5=MP, 6=EP, 7=EP, 8=EP
10 players: (3*MP, 3*EP) 0=BB, 1=SB, 2=BU, 3=CO, 4=MP, 5=MP, 6=MP, 7=EP, 8=EP, 9=EP

DeepBlue
12-30-2009, 06:52 AM
Thank you for giving the schematic of how it breaks it down. So I guess it's as I suspected, it's sort of "averaging" the six slots to the 9 or 10 seats for full ring, and isn't an exact match after all. I appreciate the feedback.

tarheel
01-18-2010, 03:07 AM
This report is designed for FR, it just translates numbers to Positions.

This is how the positions are handled:
7 players: (1*MP, 2*EP) 0=BB, 1=SB, 2=BU, 3=CO, 4=MP, 5=EP, 6=EP
8 players: (2*MP, 2*EP) 0=BB, 1=SB, 2=BU, 3=CO, 4=MP, 5=MP, 6=EP, 7=EP
9 players: (2*MP, 3*EP) 0=BB, 1=SB, 2=BU, 3=CO, 4=MP, 5=MP, 6=EP, 7=EP, 8=EP
10 players: (3*MP, 3*EP) 0=BB, 1=SB, 2=BU, 3=CO, 4=MP, 5=MP, 6=MP, 7=EP, 8=EP, 9=EP


Are these also the definitions that the hud uses when determining stats for ep, mp, and lp? For example, lets say i have a hud filter to show stats for 7 or 8 handed. How does the hud process numbers gathered from position 5 at those 2 types of tables? Also, same question for if i run a filter in hem for say, more than 6 players.

netsrak
01-18-2010, 09:27 AM
No idea, i'll forward it

B-Money
01-18-2010, 02:03 PM
Position 5 for 7 and 8 handed is MP.

Running a filter for more than 6 players is seat 5 MP except for 7 handed hands where it is considered EP.

GL,
-B