Hit_or_Miss

08-11-2011, 11:53 AM

There is an article about the EV graph, but it does not explain how that works in tournaments. Pls explain when and how that is calculated. thx.

View Full Version : All-In EV Tournaments - How and when

Hit_or_Miss

08-11-2011, 11:53 AM

There is an article about the EV graph, but it does not explain how that works in tournaments. Pls explain when and how that is calculated. thx.

Patvs

08-11-2011, 06:18 PM

It can only be calculated for STTs.

Read: http://forums.holdemmanager.com/manager-general/24059-ev-not-all-situations.html

Read: http://forums.holdemmanager.com/manager-general/24059-ev-not-all-situations.html

Hit_or_Miss

08-12-2011, 03:37 AM

thx. I did understand that. However you did not answer how it is calculated for STTs. Also in the link it does not say anything about it.

Are there any ICM calculations involved? How do you come to a dollar amount?

Are there any ICM calculations involved? How do you come to a dollar amount?

netsrak

08-12-2011, 03:55 AM

http://faq.holdemmanager.com/questions/120/EV+Explained

Hit_or_Miss

08-12-2011, 08:12 AM

Nothing in your link answers my question. I DO KNOW how EV is calculated in general.

Please explain how EV in a SNG is calculated. How do chips equate to $? Can you please give me a formula, maybe an example or two. Is ICM involved? How exactly does it work?

BTW, I think I made my request clear in my very first post, still I get this hasty, sloppy general answers that explain nothing.

Please explain how EV in a SNG is calculated. How do chips equate to $? Can you please give me a formula, maybe an example or two. Is ICM involved? How exactly does it work?

BTW, I think I made my request clear in my very first post, still I get this hasty, sloppy general answers that explain nothing.

Patvs

08-12-2011, 08:41 AM

STT Luck Adjusted Winnings:

Example:

$10 buyin. 10 players. 1000 chip stacks.

Top 3 in the money (50%/30%/20% payout)

Hand 1: two players go allin. AKs (=HERO) vs QQ (lets simplify and state this is a 50%-50% coinflip)

Every player started the STT with $10 in equity. (1000 chips = $10)

Two scenario's can occur:

A: AKs wins and you have 2000 chips (50% chance)

B: AKs loses and you finish in 10th place (50% chance)

So you have a 50% chance to double your equity. And a 50% chance to end up with $0:

(50% * $20 (2000 chips have a value of $20)) + (50% * $0) = +$10 (which is the same amount you started with before the hand)

Therefore it's irrelevant if you win of lose the hand. The hand will not result in a $EV Diff. ($10 - $10 = $0)

Hand 2: two players go allin. AA (=HERO) vs KK (lets simplify and state this is a 80%-20%)

Every player started the STT with $10 in equity. (1000 chips = $10)

Two scenario's can occur:

A: AA wins and you have 2000 chips (80% chance)

B: AA loses and you finish in 10th place (20% chance)

So you have a 80% chance to double your equity. And a 20% chance to end up with $0:

(80% * $20 (2000 chips have a value of $20)) + (20% * $0) = +$16

You started the hand with $10 in equity.

So if you win the hand: the $EV Diff will be -$4 ($16-$20)

And if you lose the hand: the $EV Diff will be +$16 ($16-$0)

The final "luck adjusted winnings" will be the sum of all the $EV Diffs + the outcome of the STT.

Example:

$10 buyin. 10 players. 1000 chip stacks.

Top 3 in the money (50%/30%/20% payout)

Hand 1: two players go allin. AKs (=HERO) vs QQ (lets simplify and state this is a 50%-50% coinflip)

Every player started the STT with $10 in equity. (1000 chips = $10)

Two scenario's can occur:

A: AKs wins and you have 2000 chips (50% chance)

B: AKs loses and you finish in 10th place (50% chance)

So you have a 50% chance to double your equity. And a 50% chance to end up with $0:

(50% * $20 (2000 chips have a value of $20)) + (50% * $0) = +$10 (which is the same amount you started with before the hand)

Therefore it's irrelevant if you win of lose the hand. The hand will not result in a $EV Diff. ($10 - $10 = $0)

Hand 2: two players go allin. AA (=HERO) vs KK (lets simplify and state this is a 80%-20%)

Every player started the STT with $10 in equity. (1000 chips = $10)

Two scenario's can occur:

A: AA wins and you have 2000 chips (80% chance)

B: AA loses and you finish in 10th place (20% chance)

So you have a 80% chance to double your equity. And a 20% chance to end up with $0:

(80% * $20 (2000 chips have a value of $20)) + (20% * $0) = +$16

You started the hand with $10 in equity.

So if you win the hand: the $EV Diff will be -$4 ($16-$20)

And if you lose the hand: the $EV Diff will be +$16 ($16-$0)

The final "luck adjusted winnings" will be the sum of all the $EV Diffs + the outcome of the STT.

Patvs

08-12-2011, 09:08 AM

If you're already in the money (or in the bubble) the calculations are more interesting:

Example:

$10 buyin. 4 (out of 10) players left.

Top 3 in the money (50%/30%/20% payout)

P1: 3000 chips

P2: 3000 chips

P3: 3000 chips

P4: 1000 chips

Hand 1: P1 and P2 go allin.

Two scenario's can occur:

A: P1 wins. P3 and P4 are automatically in the money.

B: P2 wins. P3 and P4 are automatically in the money.

But there actually is a third scenario, which is a disaster if you're P4: a splitpot.

The result is that eventhough P4 is not even involved in this hand, he'll still get a +$EV Diff if the hand between P1 and P2 results in a splitpot.

Hand 2: Three players left. P1 goes allin against P2

P1: 4000 chips (AKs)

P2: 3000 chips (QQ)

P3: 3000 chips

Two scenario's can occur:

A: P1 wins. And is guaranteed 2th place (=$30) and will play headsup as the chip favorite for 1th place.

B: P1 loses and will have only 1000 chips left (but already is guaranteed to win $10)

etc.

(HoldemManager will use the ICM model to calculate the difference in equity of the start of the hand versus the end of the hand resulting in the $EV Diff)

Example:

$10 buyin. 4 (out of 10) players left.

Top 3 in the money (50%/30%/20% payout)

P1: 3000 chips

P2: 3000 chips

P3: 3000 chips

P4: 1000 chips

Hand 1: P1 and P2 go allin.

Two scenario's can occur:

A: P1 wins. P3 and P4 are automatically in the money.

B: P2 wins. P3 and P4 are automatically in the money.

But there actually is a third scenario, which is a disaster if you're P4: a splitpot.

The result is that eventhough P4 is not even involved in this hand, he'll still get a +$EV Diff if the hand between P1 and P2 results in a splitpot.

Hand 2: Three players left. P1 goes allin against P2

P1: 4000 chips (AKs)

P2: 3000 chips (QQ)

P3: 3000 chips

Two scenario's can occur:

A: P1 wins. And is guaranteed 2th place (=$30) and will play headsup as the chip favorite for 1th place.

B: P1 loses and will have only 1000 chips left (but already is guaranteed to win $10)

etc.

(HoldemManager will use the ICM model to calculate the difference in equity of the start of the hand versus the end of the hand resulting in the $EV Diff)

Hit_or_Miss

08-12-2011, 10:44 AM

now THAT is an answer. thank you very much for actually reading my question and providing me with examples also. really appreaciate it.

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