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mak
05-14-2009, 05:48 AM
Questions:

Re: "3B_vs_open_from.MP.ip"

Does that mean the opener (the one making the 2 bet) is "in position" or does that mean the player with this stat (the one making the 3 bet) is "in position"? Since the ".ip" is on the right side of the letters "vs" it looks like it refers to the player making the opening 2 bet. If it refers to the 3 better, then the "ip" should belong on the left side of the "vs". Thus it should read, "3B.ip_vs_open_from.MP"

Re: "3B_vs_open_from.BTN.blind"

I don't see this stat. There are similar stats for EP, MP, and CO, but not for BTN. Is there a "BTN.blind" versus stat?

RE: "Fold_vs 3b." stats

I had some "fold vs" stats that I can't find anymore. Here were the stats:

Fold_vs_3b.EP.ip
Fold_vs_3b.CO.ip

and

Fold_vs_3b.EP.blind
Fold_vs_3b.MP.blind
Fold_vs_3b.CO.blind

Were these stats removed? Are these stats functional, or are they still in the works? If these "fold vs. 3b" are still active, can you please tell me where to find them (I found them once, but cannot see them now).

The formatting of the wording on these "Fold_vs_3b" is also akward. It's hard to tell whether the "EP, MP, CO" refer to the 2-better or the 3-better. It's similarly hard to tell if the designations ".ip" and ".blind" refer to the 2-better or the 3-better. You cannot be both "MP" and "blind", so obviously one refers to the 2-better and the other to the 3-better. However, the way it's listed, it's impossible to tell which designation refers to which player. Can you please tell me what designations refer to which players? (Again, my suggestion is that you put said designations on the side of the "vs" according to which player it refers to).

Finally, even when I found them before, I did not see ".BTN" stats for these versus-foldings stats. Why did you not originally have the .btn stats as well?

Just trying to understand these new stats. Thanks.

morny
05-14-2009, 07:24 PM
Re: "3B_vs_open_from.MP.ip"

Does that mean the opener (the one making the 2 bet) is "in position" or does that mean the player with this stat (the one making the 3 bet) is "in position"? Since the ".ip" is on the right side of the letters "vs" it looks like it refers to the player making the opening 2 bet. If it refers to the 3 better, then the "ip" should belong on the left side of the "vs". Thus it should read, "3B.ip_vs_open_from.MP"



Its how often he 3bets In Position vs an open from MP


Re: "3B_vs_open_from.BTN.blind"

I don't see this stat. There are similar stats for EP, MP, and CO, but not for BTN. Is there a "BTN.blind" versus stat?


The 3B_vs_open_from.BTN.total covers this since the only place you can be 3bet from when your on the button is the blinds wheras in MP you can be 3bet from the button or blinds so they were seperated but if we had a 3B_vs_open_from.BTN.total and 3B_vs_open_from.BTN.blind it would be the same stat.


I had some "fold vs" stats that I can't find anymore. Here were the stats:

Fold_vs_3b.EP.ip
Fold_vs_3b.CO.ip

and

Fold_vs_3b.EP.blind
Fold_vs_3b.MP.blind
Fold_vs_3b.CO.blind

Were these stats removed? Are these stats functional, or are they still in the works? If these "fold vs. 3b" are still active, can you please tell me where to find them (I found them once, but cannot see them now).


These are still there for me in 1.08.03, maybe youve already added them to the hud, once you add then they disappear from the available stats section but there still there.

Hope that explains the last questions aswell

mak
05-14-2009, 10:53 PM
...Hope that explains the last questions aswell

Almost. I hope you can see why this could be so confusing. I mean, when you look at your own stats in the "Cash Games - Reports" tab, you see things like, "vs 3Bet Raise%", that AFAIK do not refer to our opponent, but refer to us making a 4bet. So, when you add stats in the HUD that use the "vs" it's hard to tell what you guys mean by it. It would help a ton if you guys would remain consistent on your use of "vs."

Anyhow, I think I understand what you answered. I just want to make sure though. I still have some questions about the designations in the HUD on the "fold_vs" stats. I'm still needing the most clarification on the last "Re" that I list below, but would like you to confirm my understanding on all of these:

Re: "Fold_vs_3b.EP.total"

Based on your previous answer, the ".EP" should refer to the 3 better (since it follows directly after the "3b"). That would be consistent with how you answered previously. Are my assumptions on the designations of these positions correct?

Re: "Fold_vs_3b.CO.ip"

Based on your previous answers, I assume the ".CO" refers to the position of the 3 better (since it follows directly after the "3b", while the ".ip" refers to the position of the person the stat is on (i.e., the 2 better). That would be consistent with how you answered previously. Are my assumptions on the designations of these positions correct?

Re: "Fold_vs_3b.CO.blind"

Again, I assume that the ".CO" refers to the position 3 better, while the ".blind" refers to the position of the player this stat is on (i.e., the 2 better). I'm trying to figure out how this even happens. I presume if we are in the blind and our opponent 3 bets us from the cutoff, then that means the cutoff limp raised. That is, the cutoff limped, we 2 bet from the blinds, and he limp-raised to a 3 bet from the cutoff. I don't see how else we get 3-bet from the blinds.

However, if all this is true, then why isn't there a "Fold_vs_3b.BTN.blind"? I mean, can't we get limp-raised from the button as well?

---

Oh also, it's kind of weird that these stats are removed from the list, whereas others are not when you use them. Sometimes it is helpful to allow us to grab the stat more than once. In other words, I have sometimes duplicated the stat on different places in the HUD popup. That would be helpful to be able to do on the "fold_vs" stats as well.

Thanks for your help.

morny
05-15-2009, 08:23 PM
Re: "Fold_vs_3b.EP.total"

Based on your previous answer, the ".EP" should refer to the 3 better (since it follows directly after the "3b"). That would be consistent with how you answered previously. Are my assumptions on the designations of these positions correct?


How often he folds vs a 3bet when he raises from EP


Re: "Fold_vs_3b.CO.ip"

Based on your previous answers, I assume the ".CO" refers to the position of the 3 better (since it follows directly after the "3b", while the ".ip" refers to the position of the person the stat is on (i.e., the 2 better). That would be consistent with how you answered previously. Are my assumptions on the designations of these positions correct?


How often he folds to a 3bet when hes in the CO and hes IP so an example would be when hes in the CO and one of the blinds 3bet him, if the button 3bets him then this isnt counted as he dosent have position on the button but does on the blinds


Re: "Fold_vs_3b.CO.blind"

Again, I assume that the ".CO" refers to the position 3 better, while the ".blind" refers to the position of the player this stat is on (i.e., the 2 better). I'm trying to figure out how this even happens. I presume if we are in the blind and our opponent 3 bets us from the cutoff, then that means the cutoff limp raised. That is, the cutoff limped, we 2 bet from the blinds, and he limp-raised to a 3 bet from the cutoff. I don't see how else we get 3-bet from the blinds.

However, if all this is true, then why isn't there a "Fold_vs_3b.BTN.blind"? I mean, can't we get limp-raised from the button as well?


If someone limp raises then its counted as a limp raise 100% and 3bet 0% as they are 2 different scenario's and i think its correct to seperate these. So it looks like its a bit confusing and i agree it should be improved and we will when we get a chance, next week the FAQs are getting a revamp and all these stats will be explained in detail so thats at least a temporary solution.

btw it looks like Fold_vs_3b.CO.blind and Fold_vs_3b.CO.ip look like there the same stat so that might be a mistake that they were added twice

Again Fold_vs_3b.BTN.blind is essentially Fold_vs_3b.BTN.total since its when someone folds vs a 3bet when they are on the button and the blinds raise

Bare in mind i had to read this about 5 times:D and its 1:20am here so i hopefully im making sense, feel free to reclarify anything if i didnt make sense as it is a bit confusing.

mak
05-17-2009, 06:59 AM
Re: "Fold_vs_3b.CO.ip"

How often he folds to a 3bet when hes in the CO and hes IP...

Re: "Fold_vs_3b.CO.blind"

it looks like Fold_vs_3b.CO.blind and Fold_vs_3b.CO.ip look like there the same stat so that might be a mistake that they were added twice...

Wat? So, in the first case, the ".CO" and ".ip" both refer to the position of the 2 better (the player the stat is on), while in the second case, the ".CO" refers to the 2 better, while the ".blind" refers to the 3-better? You serious? This is massive inconsistency. It's also not consistent with your "3B_vs_open_from.[pos]" stats. This is just a lot of confusion all the way around.

If you guys did it like I suggested, it would clear up a lot of confusion. Namely, put the position designation on the correct side (left or right) of the "vs." Thus, if you want to talk about the guy folding his 2 bet in the cutoff from a blind 3 bet, your stat would be entitled, "Fold in CO vs. 3b from Blind", or shorter version would read, "Fold.CO_vs_3b.Blind". Surely you can see how this designation would clear up a ton of confusion.