Custom stats in HUD

[Mercadiator]

First of all, i'm sorry if this topic is going to be a little bit unstructured, but I'm currently a bit sleepy while typing this.
But, let's talk about Custom HUD Stats

What I mean with Custom HUD Stats:
Stats which you can build yourself and add to your HUD, by using existing stats and mathematical symbols.

(Simple) Example:
1) A user can Create a custom stat, by naming it "CallStationFactor"
2) The user can Create the formula for this stat, example:
(VPIP - PFR) / VPIP * 100
For VPIP / PFR this would result in CallStationFactor:
15 / 13 => 13
15 / 1 => 93
20 / 18 => 10
20 / 2 => 90

And then you could color code this stat, with anything above 85, you could mark it "yellow".
Anything below that, could be marked "gray".
If it's yellow, you can see immediately that you are up against a calling station and act accordingly.

This is just 1 example ( it's probably not an optimal solution), but I hope you get the point: The possibilities are endless.

Optional:
Endless possibilities if you go a step further and allow "if / else" cases, variables, etc... Those who have done some basic programming in the past can immediately see what a sophisticated things you could do with this. You could write your whole "FishFactor" stat that takes VPIP, PFR, WTSD, etc... into account, does some nice "if / else" stuff with it to eventually give you a stat that results in 0-100 fish factor ( with 100 being the ultimate fish - the one you want to play, and 0 being the ultimate shark - the one you want to avoid whenever he enters the pot ).



Now I need to get the following out of the way:
The community has been asking for this functionality since 2008.
A year ago, I've seen a poll on the HEM forum with 98 people voting "I want this" and 2 people voting "don't need it".
It looks like the HEM 1 suggestions forum has been taken off line so I can't find this poll anymore, or the thread has been deleted.
But the following poll is still out there: Enable adding custom stats to the HUD. (http://holdemmanager.uservoice.com/forums/5307-holdem-manger-suggestions/suggestions/355617-enable-adding-custom-stats-to-the-hud-)
It has 127 votes.

I'm not adding a poll to this topic, cause people have been asking for it for 3 years now. I believe it's not the question anymore whether players want this or not. We have had these polls and the result were "Yes, We Want Them"

A few years back,
I had to choose between HEM and PTR 3.
PTR 3 had this functionality ( i was told ) but I preferred HEM at that time, and I was told that this custom stat functionality would be implemented to HEM as well in the foreseeable future.
So, I decided to go for HEM and just patiently wait for this nice feature to be added.

Unfortunetely, it never got implemented.
Now, there is Holdem Manager 2, with nice new graphics and features and stuff,
and.... still not a single sign of the custom stat feature for the HUD.

I've been waiting for this feature for 2 years now, the community have shown they want this.
Sorry, but I can't keep waiting forever, so I'm going to be clear about this:

I will make the switch to PTR 4 instead of buying Holdem Manager 2, if it doesn't get implemented.
This time a "We will add it in the future" will no longer be enough for me, we've been there already.
Don't get me wrong, I have had a great time with HEM. And it was worth the money.
But I really, really, want to start playing with custom stats in the HUD.

So, this is the very last time that I'm going to ask for this feature.
Thank you in advance.

[B-Money]

You are correct, custom stats has probably been the most talked about topic of development for the past year and a half at HM. At the end of the day, Notecaddy is more powerful than any custom stat creator and we can add stats pretty easily for everyone. We added over 76 new stats this last year as well. I believe that's over 300 stats people can use out of the box now.

In the near future we will not be adding a custom stat creator. When we evaluate everything involved it's much easier to add stats people can use out of the box than to build out a scripting shell for users.


PT admits in one of their PT4 threads that their current custom stat creator has had bugs from day one returning wrong data.
In that same thread they said they added 2 additional support staff to help people figure out and create their own custom stats.


I've tinkered with their stat creator and it's far from simple to use and understand. I consider myself above average when it comes to tech and if I couldn't figure it out, how can the general public?

For what it's worth, I do like your idea of a fish factor stat and the team will no doubt read this thread. Who knows, maybe a fish finder stat system will make it in a future build. For now you can use the new HUD Charts that use normalized ranges for the game you play. That's essentially a fish finder system. Auto Rate Rules are another option.

Sorry to see ya go, hopefully it's only temporary.
-B

[marvelage]

In HM1 we could make a custom stat by adding it to the report. But there were no way to add stat from report to HUD. So, can we do it in HM2? Also, how i can create a custom stat for the report in HM2? Files in folder "Holdemmanager2\Reports" have not same structure as that files in HM1.

[udbrky]

You should check out what you can do with adding note caddy stats to the hud

[Mercadiator]

I think there still is a serious misunderstanding on the concept of "custom stats", even after I tried to explain it with some clear examples.

I write "stat1 + stat2 = a custom stat" - this is not hard to implement, seriously. This is nothing more than basic algebra.

And you read: "something complicated, something even more complicated, something terribly complicated = a custom stat" - 'no, we can't implement this, and the public will not understand how to do this'.


Am I right?


All I'm asking, is to add basic algebra ( which is: +, -, /, x )
This on its own can already give some interesting extra power to the HUD,
as in my "CallStationFactor" example.


Let me rephrase, with a new example:
We want a way, a system, a feature, that allows us to combine existing stats by the use of basic algebra, to output our very own new stat.
The main use for this kind of stuff, will be to make stats more "connected" to someone his poker strategy.
What I mean is: Someones poker strategy might be best suited for certain type of players, while other types of players must absolutely be avoided.

Say, someone with a very high steal rate + a very high VPIP rate + very high aggression rate + very high WTSD rate, is perfectly suited for my own particular strategy.
Then I can add my very own stat, which solely uses existing HUD stats (1) + algebra (2), that does the following equation ( again, not an optimal solution, but that's not the point ):
CO steal + BTN Steal + SB Steal + (aggression factor * 50) + WTSD * 20 + VPIP * 2 = my_custom_stat

This:
1) can't be that hard to implement....
2) the general public WILL be able to figure this all out,
poker players who use Holdem Manager SHOULD at least know basic algebra

[Mercadiator]

bump

[johncc]

My own take on your particular "custom stat" is very flawed

As IMO even if the villain has a high VPIP (are they positionally aware)?

A high AF (i prefer AFQ) would also be flawed if you just use a total , as most of it could just be to do with cbetting

Only my opinion, also I think people are over complicating the HUD stats as i don't see a need.

In the mean time, a little work around attached, just save it in roaming/config folder

If the totals mean villain is a stn, just add your stn colour to the HUD

Not exactly what you wanted, but might help you, oh i put the stat under scan score, as i don't use that

[melles]

I write "stat1 + stat2 = a custom stat" - this is not hard to implement, seriously. This is nothing more than basic algebra.

+1

[ManuC]

Doesn't the tablescanner player score a kind of custom fish stat?

[kraboo]

+1
+1

I also think the custom stat editor should be a must. You know the community really want this and has been asking for this for some time now. Really, it can't be that hard to implement.

[Mercadiator]

+1

I also think the custom stat editor should be a must. You know the community really want this and has been asking for this for some time now. Really, it can't be that hard to implement.

We are 4 years later now.
They clearly don't care after everything that has been said, despite the simplicity of it.

MyCustomStat = PFR / VPIP * 100

It's not hard, it's not hard at all.
And I can know because I'm a programmer myself:
1 extra view, 1 extra database table, a few extra lines of codes here and there.
Maximum 1 day of work.

... well yeah, I switched to PT 4.

I'm disappointed.

PT 4 did listen to their community and this was the perfect and lovely result:

http://www.pokertracker.com/sites/file.php?fid=1935&name=4+def.png


HM, I hope you don't mind that I post this PT 4 screenshot here, but in all honesty: You've had 4 years to implement this since the first Poll about it. So you've had your chance to keep me and others... but blew that ( for whatever unknown reason ??? ).

[fozzy71]

Thank you for the feedback. I have forwarded your comments to management.

[semesa]

I will admit, I'm quite close to switching over myself.

As I've progressed through the stakes I've become more and more aware of HEM's shortfallings. The only reason I bought HEM over PT3(or was it 2?) in the first place was due to the general opinion that PT never updated/added new features.

It seems the pendulum has swung the other way. Time to jump ship?

[morny]

You guys definitely have very valid points, the bottom line was we wanted to do this a long time ago and on many occasions we put this project on hold for reasons anyone that wants custom stats is unlikely to agree with.

The bottom line was this was a lot of work to implement properly, there wasn't enough people asking for it and when implemented not enough people would benefit from it. We could probably fix 20+ bugs in the same timescale for this full implementation, this made it difficult for us because delaying fixing this amount of bugs which would have a significant impact on a huge % of users to implement something that would only benefit a small % of users is not an easy decision and this is why on several occasions we delayed it again and again as it was just hard to justify to other users. You can imagine their point, you've over 1200 stats and your telling me your not fixing my bugs for another 2 months because you want to add a feature to add more stats, this is the other side of the fence.

In this business because we support about 20 different sites, some of which have hundreds of skins there is a constant flow of new bugs appearing and this is just the nature of the business.

So if we implemented the custom stats we would keep you guys very happy but we would have a lot more unhappy people that there issues were been delayed while we were working on a big project which is basically a feature request. Like i said i don't expect you guys to agree because this would be a fantastic feature and i totally agree with you but i'm trying to explain the reasons why this isn't completely clear cut, it also cant be ignored how long this has dragged on so in any case we probably let you guys down even if we had valid reasons.

If you look in the old custom stats forum, there was lots of posts on people trying to create custom stats that couldn't, sometimes people would help but most times people didn't so the custom stat feature was mostly useful to the people who could use it which isn't the average customer. Our main aim by the end of the project is to make it a lot more user friendly than HM1 so more people can use it.

I know you guys mentioned i don't want a fancy interface, i just want something that * PFR by 100, we were very liberal in adding new stats that were requested and probably have over 1200 stats right now. That was our short term solution instead of implementing a half baked solution we would have to re-write at a later stage

But i have some good news that the first phase of custom stats/custom reports project is off the ground. In the next version HMQL is implemented which is Holdem Manager Query Language, this is the basis the customer stats and customer reports are on. Its pre alpha stage but its actually working, when its released if you go to more reports > HMQL and type the following you'll see its already pulling all the info:


select StatTotalHands,StatPlayerNameAndSite,StatFullRingP osition,StatNetAmountWon,StatBigBlindsPer100,StatV PIP,StatPFR,StatThreeBet,StatWentToShowdown,StatWo nShowdown,StatPostflopAggression,StatPostflopAggre ssionPercentage from stats group by StatPlayerNameAndSite


select StatTotalHands,StatHighCardOnFlop,StatFlushDrawTex tureOnFlop,StatFlopCBet,StatFlopCBetSuccess1,StatF lopCBetSuccess2,StatFlopCBetSuccess3,StatTurnCBet, StatTurnCBetSuccess1,StatTurnCBetSuccess2,StatTurn CBetSuccess3,StatRiverCBet,StatRiverCBetSuccess1,S tatRiverCBetSuccess2,StatRiverCBetSuccess3 from stats group by StatHighCardOnFlop,StatFlushDrawTextureOnFlop


select StatGameTypeDescription,StatBigBlind,StatTableSize ,StatTotalHands,StatNetAmountWon,StatBigBlindsPer1 00,StatVPIP,StatPFR,StatThreeBet,StatWentToShowdow n,StatWonShowdown,StatPostflopAggression,StatPostf lopAggressionPercentage from stats group by StatGameTypeDescription,StatBigBlind,StatTableSize


select StatSessionGrouping,StatSessionDuration,StatSessio nGameTypeDescription,StatTotalHands,StatNetAmountW on,StatBigBlindsPer100,StatVPIP,StatPFR,StatThreeB et,StatWentToShowdown,StatWonShowdown,StatPostflop Aggression,StatPostflopAggressionPercentage from stats group by StatSessionGrouping


select StatGameTypeDescription,StatNumberOfPlayersGroupin g,StatTotalHands,StatNetAmountWon,StatBigBlindsPer 100,StatVPIP,StatPFR,StatThreeBet,StatWentToShowdo wn,StatWonShowdown,StatPostflopAggression,StatPost flopAggressionPercentage from stats group by StatGameTypeDescription,StatNumberOfPlayersGroupin g

Well have documentation on all the current stats and options soon and this isnt specifically relevant to custom stats but well be exposing more and more areas of HM so you guys can do what you need. Right now the report section is the only place you can interact but as i said well be expanding it, this is still quite a big project and will take some time but with each new release we will be improving on it, so this doesn't solve people looking for custom stats short term problem as its still a bit away from being near ready to use custom stats but if you do have useful stats you want to create, pop them in here and ill make a push to get them included asap

[semesa]

Hmm... I'm not familiar with PostGreSQL, I have used PHP/mysql a bit though and if its anything like that, it should be quite easy to implement.

Unless the statistics(VPIP/PFR/3b/etc/etc/etc) are not actually hashed within the database, and instead, computed on the fly.(nonsensical way of doing it so I assume its not)


Given the demographic most likely to use this feature(computer literate, probably with some programming knowledge) you could easily just give us a console/scripting shell and we can do it from there.

[udbrky]

I'm sorry to hear you're having issues with this and I apologize for the delay. I have escalated this to our 2nd level support techs and have explained the issues you are having and they will be in touch shortly to help resolve the problem.

[morny]

Hmm... I'm not familiar with PostGreSQL, I have used PHP/mysql a bit though and if its anything like that, it should be quite easy to implement.

Unless the statistics(VPIP/PFR/3b/etc/etc/etc) are not actually hashed within the database, and instead, computed on the fly.(nonsensical way of doing it so I assume its not)


Given the demographic most likely to use this feature(computer literate, probably with some programming knowledge) you could easily just give us a console/scripting shell and we can do it from there.

Im not a programmer so i cant comment on the technical side but i do know from talking with them there is a lot of work involved. The HMQL report i talked about is basically the console like you mentioned but we have to expose different areas before it can be used, stats hasnt been exposed yet but that would only have read capabilities, we also need to be able to let you save your results and add them to reports then the HUD has to be able to read those also. This wasnt possible in HM1 but should be in HM2 which will make it even more powerful.

We also would like to make it more accessible to people with no programming experience but thats something which will come as we develop it more. thanks for the feedback

[Azalin]

Morny I am one of the users that also would like to see custom stats added and your announcement that you have already started work on that is great news!

Can you give a rough timeframe (2+months etc) when this feature will be available?

[udbrky]

It is too early to have an estimate of the time frame needed.

[Guenni]

Any idea when HQML will be available ?

[fozzy71]

Any idea when HQML will be available ?

I do not have an ETA yet for the documentation but the report is in the next beta. I will send an email to the developer and see if we can get some sort of fresh estimate.

96461

[KEKCoGEN]

Hi. Can I use this HQML tool in my third party software? Is any API exists for now?
Thanks

[Patvs]

This doesn't exist yet. Bugticket on this issue is HM-5317, I've added your email address to the ticket.

[KEKCoGEN]

Thanks!
Any link to this ticket or it can't be access from outside?

[Patvs]

It's an internal ticket, that can't be read without access.

The ticket is a feature request ticket that basically reads: Ticket for tracking implementation of the long-promised public API system for third-party developers. In short: most of the 3rd party dev's have seen asking about this want the same type of access for HM2 that they already have in HM1.

[KEKCoGEN]

So in HM1 do you provide such API? Can I get some links if so?
Thanks

[Patvs]

See the last two posts from this thread: http://forums.holdemmanager.com/manager-general/114781-usd-stat-formula.html#post1461042

For HM1, we once published a list which tables are in the PostgreSQL database, and what the values in the columns represent, so you can write you own queries extracting this info from the database.

[punter11235]

For HM1, we once published a list which tables are in the PostgreSQL databas

Is it something like this for HM2 ? I am working on some scritps using HM DB and I would really like to move to HM2 already but guessing what table is what in new version scares me a bit.

As to custom stats being difficult to implement and HQML ideas: May I suggest that you guys are tackling the problem the wrong way ? I understand that writing nice user friendly editor for custom stats (something like PT3 guys attempted) is difficult and might not the best idea. Putting simple text window and parser for SQL queries and simple arithmetic though is very simple and would be very veyr useful for advanced users.
Not having that, nor API, nor HQML (which I am sure will take a while to be working correctly) I really hope there is description of postgres tables available. That one feature would make me move to HM2 for good. Pleeeeeasse :)

Also as to your "it's easier to implement features users ask for than make custom stats available". Please understand that poker is very competitive game. I don't want my "he bets on Kxx flop and then checks and then calls a bet lower than 50% of the pot and now how often does he fold to 3/4+pot bet" stat available to everybody :)

[fozzy71]

Is it something like this for HM2 ? I am working on some scritps using HM DB and I would really like to move to HM2 already but guessing what table is what in new version scares me a bit.

As to custom stats being difficult to implement and HQML ideas: May I suggest that you guys are tackling the problem the wrong way ? I understand that writing nice user friendly editor for custom stats (something like PT3 guys attempted) is difficult and might not the best idea. Putting simple text window and parser for SQL queries and simple arithmetic though is very simple and would be very veyr useful for advanced users.
Not having that, nor API, nor HQML (which I am sure will take a while to be working correctly) I really hope there is description of postgres tables available. That one feature would make me move to HM2 for good. Pleeeeeasse :)

Also as to your "it's easier to implement features users ask for than make custom stats available". Please understand that poker is very competitive game. I don't want my "he bets on Kxx flop and then checks and then calls a bet lower than 50% of the pot and now how often does he fold to 3/4+pot bet" stat available to everybody :)

We did not post the HM2 DB Schema and have no plans to do so at this time. The HMQL project is in progress but I don't have an official ETA when it will be available for the public with official documentation.

Here is an example pic so you can see that it does in fact exist but still has some kinks that need to be worked out before we can make it public.

103881

[punter11235]

Well I think big part of value of HM is ability to use postgres DB it construct for various tasks. That's how many custom apps could start.
Could you give your assessment if it's difficult to guess how HM2 postgres db works ? Is it much different than HM1 one ?
Also if I attempt to rewrite my queries would it be possible to get some help about specifics on this forum or is it your policy to not give this information to the public ?

Thanks for help :)

[fozzy71]

Well I think big part of value of HM is ability to use postgres DB it construct for various tasks. That's how many custom apps could start.
Could you give your assessment if it's difficult to guess how HM2 postgres db works ? Is it much different than HM1 one ?
Also if I attempt to rewrite my queries would it be possible to get some help about specifics on this forum or is it your policy to not give this information to the public ?

Thanks for help :)

I am not a programmer so I have no idea how to do it but I assume that it is more difficult in HM2 based on other questions/complaints we have received about this in the past due to the new parent database folder structure we use.

In HM1 there are a lot of tables that deal with a specific hand played by a specific player. In HM2 we don't have these tables, instead, for player related hand data, we use a flat file approach. Each player has his own folder and each file represents a single day. Each line within the file is a tokenized version of a single hand with incredible amounts of detail. Your overall HM2 spaced used (DB + Files) is about 2/3 of HM1 and we store probably 2-3 times as much info plus it can be accessed many, many times faster and allows us to do some things that wouldn't be possible otherwise, many of which are yet to come. If you don't want the space in your Roaming folder due to C: file space or something like that, we do give you the option of storing this data anywhere

General rule is 1 million hands = 10 GB.

In reality it's: 1 million hands
HM1: 6.8 GB
HM2: 4.3 GB
PT4: 13.6 GB

So with a 10 million hand database you need as SSD of at least 60 GB (Windows) + 100 GB = 160 GB.
We use 1 million = 10 GB (instead of 6.8) because when you want to perform a vacuum/analyse or backup/restore a database it will require a LOT of disk space to perform such a task.


Unfortunately you are on your own with these types of topics. None of us on the tech support team are programmers so we can not provide help with this and we can not afford to have the developers taking time from their programming duties to answer these types of questions on the forums.