Wrong "vs Miss CB Flop" opportunity

[Sam Blank]

When I import this only hand in an empty DB, I got
vs Miss CB value as "0(1)". So this hand counts as an opportunity to make a bet into missed cbet. But this seems to be just wrong. Preflop aggressor (3bettor) checks on the flop, but then 3-bet-cold-caller bets into Hero.. hero doesn't even have opportunity to bet - only raise.

Overall, this (and probably some other) bug affects this stat significantly

PokerStars Hand #078649358265: Hold'em No Limit ($0.01/$0.02 USD) - 2017/07/08 5:00:00 ET
Table 'Asshai' 6-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: Rorge ($2 in chips)
Seat 2: Chataya ($4.16 in chips)
Seat 4: CletusYronwood ($2 in chips)
Seat 5: Cuger ($0.37 in chips)
Seat 6: Gorne ($2.40 in chips)
Rorge: posts small blind $0.01
Chataya: posts big blind $0.02
GooHunter: sits out
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Gorne [3s As]
CletusYronwood: folds
Cuger: folds
Gorne: raises $0.02 to $0.04
Rorge: raises $0.10 to $0.14
Chataya: calls $0.12
Gorne: calls $0.10
*** FLOP *** [6c 9c Qd]
Rorge: checks
Chataya: bets $0.21
Gorne: folds
Rorge: folds
Uncalled bet ($0.21) returned to Chataya
Chataya collected $0.41 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $0.42 | Rake $0.01
Board [6c 9c Qd]
Seat 1: Rorge (small blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 2: Chataya (big blind) collected ($0.41)
Seat 4: CletusYronwood folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: Cuger folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: Gorne (button) folded on the Flop

[udbrky]

I have escalated your issue to our 2nd level support techs and they will respond to your email as soon as possible.

[udbrky]

There is an issue in the stat definition. It is corrected in HM3. Since it is a very small effect, we will not fix it in HM2.

[Sam Blank]

This (and probably some more(?)) issue(s) cause "vs. Missed Cbet turn" to be mistaken as much as ~20% (!!!!)
on a fixed dataset I test on. HM2 shows its value as 48.44% whereas PokerTracker4 shows Float Turn as 67%. And I reckon those should be the same stats effectively. My own analysis (rather rigorous as you can see - down to single hands) confirms this number (of PT4 stat); in fact my script gives 34/52 whereas PT4 shows 34/51, and this difference is either my/pt mistake or something that could REALLY be neglected. but the difference around 20% is just not acceptable, I guess.

Buy the way, is it possible to upgrade to HM3 for free for those who have HM2 license?)))

[random]

Thank you for taking time to test and report this.

Could you provide the sample of hands you used and we will make sure it works fine with them.

Please also take into account that in PT4 there are 2 different stats when comparing them to HM2 values.

Float Bet which is used when player bets IP vs missed cbet
Probe Bet which is used when player bets OOP vs missed cbet from previous street.

In HM2 these are simply IP / OOP stats.


There will be different upgrade options available depending on date of purchase for HM2.

[Sam Blank]

Okay, it's clear now)

So, the stat "Turn Bet vs Missed CB" (MCBTTOT) include both situations with missed turn cbet and missed flop cbet.
And the stat "Turn Bet vs Missed CB IP" (MCBTI) only situations with missed turn cbet.

The second one shows 65.38(52), which exactly matches with my own app. So, the problem is solved here, I misinterpreted the stat.

But then another question arises: is there really correct and full definition of both stats publicly available on the internet?

Because here: Hold'Em Manager 2 FAQs - Poker Software :: HUD Popups Stat Descriptions

We read: "Turn Bet vs Missed CB: Pct of hands player bets after opponent missed Turn continuation bet"
and this description clearly (for me at least) refers to situations when Flop cbet WAS made, and then Turn cbet WASN'T. Effectively describing "Turn Float" or "Turn Bet vs Missed CB IP" (MCBTI). So this description is just wrong, because in the popup the MCBTTOT stat shown in this cell

Thanks for your help!

[udbrky]

Please zip and send to us the hands that you are using to see this.

Please create a support ticket via the 'Contact Support' link here - https://support.holdemmanager.com/ - and if there is a forum thread with additional information please link to this thread and let us know your forum name if there are several people in the thread.

[Sam Blank]

My last question has nothing to do with the dataset, that problem was solved) It's about the description of the stat in your FAQ. Description of the stat "Turn Bet vs Missed CB" is wrong (or unclear) in the FAQ, as it actually includes situations when Hero OOP and _FLOP_ cbet was missed, whereas stat's description says "Pct of hands player bets after opponent missed Turn continuation bet".

I'll send you dataset when encounter the next bug

[udbrky]

It's for IP, since OOP bet vs missed c-bet (by definition) necessarily refers to the previous street. You can't bet vs a missed c-bet before it's been missed. That's a donk bet (by definition).