EV $ DIFF - negative, but why?

[datune]

Hello, please consider the following hand:

Full Tilt Poker, $0.25/0.50 Hold'em Cash Games, 2 Players
Hand Converter by Pokerhand.org

Board:
BB: $63.60
Button: $65.25

Dealt to Button 7:diamond: 7:spade:

Pre-flop:
Button raises to $1.50, BB raises to $5, Button raises to $17.50, BB calls $12.50

Flop: ($35.75) 4:club: A:diamond: J:spade: (2 Players)
BB checks, Button checks

Turn: ($35.75) 7:club: (2 Players)
BB bets $21.50, Button raises to $47.75 and is all-in, BB calls $24.60 and is all-in, Button returns $1.65

River: ($127.95) 9:heart: (2 Players)

In the CashGames/Sessions Tab, Grouped By Session ListView, it displays (in the ListRow):

EV $ Diff: -23.04

Why? Am I misinterpreting this stat?

Thanks in advance for enlightening me ;-)

[Al1]

Read my old answere

About EV diff:

Imagine you are allin before the river and you have 50% chance to win the pot which is 100$ (only you and your opponent are contributed). If you win, you are +50$ net. But in this case, your EV diff will be -50$. By adding your net profit and the EV diff, you see what you are going to win in the long run from this pot. In this case 0$.

Understand?

[datune]

I think I understand, however, how come the EV is -23.04 in the above hand, where the opponent had Jc8c?

Preflop that makes me a 52% vs his 48%, so why is it not -50, but -23.04?

or are your calculations above just a simplified example? (I would lke to know how it is calculated if possible)

[Al1]

I think I understand, however, how come the EV is -23.04 in the above hand, where the opponent had Jc8c?

Preflop that makes me a 52% vs his 48%, so why is it not -50, but -23.04?

or are your calculations above just a simplified example? (I would lke to know how it is calculated if possible)

No prob.

Just give me your equity on the turn, available in HM.

[datune]

Hi,

According to HM my Equity on the turn was 82%

[morny]

This is calculated by taking your equity% of the total pot when you get all in and comparing that to what you actually won. your 82% to win with my set in a $400 pot.

82% x $128 = $105 so what its saying is on average i should win approx $105 on average when i get all in. You won $128 so thats approx 128-105 = $23 more than you would win on average

[marknekk]

I know this thread is quite old, but what I am going to ask is closely related to this topic.

First let me post a hand, more questions after that...

Grabbed by Holdem Manager
NL Holdem $0.02(BB) Replayer
SB ($2.72)
Hero ($2.23)
UTG ($0.37)
UTG+1 ($1.18)
UTG+2 ($5.31)
MP1 ($1.17)
MP2 ($1.25)
CO ($2.24)
BTN ($4.19)

Dealt to Hero Q:heart: Q:diamond:

fold, UTG+1 calls $0.02, fold, fold, fold, CO calls $0.02, fold, fold, Hero raises to $0.12, UTG+1 calls $0.10, CO calls $0.10

FLOP ($0.37) 3:diamond: 7:diamond: 4:club:

Hero bets $0.37, UTG+1 calls $0.37, CO folds

TURN ($1.11) 3:diamond: 7:diamond: 4:club: A:spade:

Hero bets $0.70, UTG+1 calls $0.69 (AI)

RIVER ($2.49) 3:diamond: 7:diamond: 4:club: A:spade: 3:heart:

Hero shows Q:heart: Q:diamond:
(Pre 83%, Flop 82.5%, Turn 88.6%)

UTG+1 shows 9:spade: 4:spade:
(Pre 17%, Flop 17.5%, Turn 11.4%)

Hero wins $2.34

Ok, the AI came on the Turn with me having 88.6% equity. I do understand how the "EV$ Diff" works. It's what you would win on average and all that.

But what makes me wonder is... making some easy calculations like this:

$Won 1.16 x 0.886 = 1.028
1.16 - 1.028 = 0.13 <- Should be $EV Diff

But HEM actually shows -$0.27 which is -$0.13 x 2 = -$0.26.

So, is the small stakes HEM flawed? Or does it some weird calculations? I first guessed it had to do with the fact that when you lose, you lose your money and the money you didn't win. But that when you won, you got both, your money and that of the villain.

But as I see, the $EV Diff calculations in the example presented in this thread are completely straightforward. No multiplying with 2 or anything...

Any coherent ideas?

PS: You should really introduce some "icons" for all the card thingys...

PPS: Betting with an Ace showing up took some guts (lol), but as you see ... it was such a huge donkey, I just had to take him for a ride.

Oh, and yes, that hand was reimported after the whole "All-in equity" problem which HEM 5d had. You can always recheck with pokerstove if you wish.

[Patvs]

Hero ($2.23) QQ
UTG+1 ($1.18) 94

board 374A

TURN
Hero bets $0.69, UTG+1 calls $0.69 (AI)

Hero wins $2.34

----

When you go allin:
You have a 88.6% chance to win $1.30 ($1.18 from UTG+1, plus the $0.12 of dead money from the CO)
And a $11.4% chance to lose $1.18

So your equity is: (88.6% * 1.30) - (11.4% * 1.18)--->
$1.1518 - $0.13452 = $1.017.
By winning the hand you win $1.30.
So the EV Diff is -$0.28 ($1.30-$1.017)


The EV bug only affected preflop allins.
So whether you're using 1.11.05d or 1.11.05e, the EV in this hand is correct.

[marknekk]

Thanks for the complete answer. I'll have to take a closer look at it in another moment to get the whole idea. Thanks again.

PS: Ok, I got the idea perfectly. (Wasn't at home before) Thanks.