# Thread: Steal = 0, Fold Vs resteal = 100

1. ## Steal = 0, Fold Vs resteal = 100

When I was at the table, a player came up in the HUD like this:
Steal = 0
Fold Vs resteal = 100

It seems like that should not be possible.

I have 50 hands on this player. There are only two hands for which his action went "RF," so my guess was that those two hands might show what was causing the problem.

I replayed the two hands, and there were limpers in both of them. The action for each hand is:
• HAND 1 - EP limps, MP limps, Villian raises on button, BB 3-bets, EP folds, MP folds, Villain folds.
• HAND 2 - EP limps, Villain raises on button, SB 3-bets, EP calls, Villain folds.

I tried to see if the stats would show up the same way in reports, but there is no Fold Vs resteal in the reports.

2. Fold vs 3bet is the same as fold vs resteal, check that out and if you find any inconsistencies email the hand to support@holdemmanager.net and well look into it

3. His fold vs 3bet is 100%, but that makes sense to me given the action in the two hands that I listed, so there are no inconsistencies there.

But look at all three stats:
Steal = 0
Fold Vs resteal = 100
Fold vs 3bet = 100

The last one makes sense, but the first two seem to disagree. If there is no problem with the values of the first two, then what exactly are the first two stats tracking (what are their definitions)?

Here are the two definitions from the FAQ:
"Steal - When someone raises from the CO, BTN or SB when the pot is unopened."
"Fold VS Resteal - How often someone folds to a resteal (Example - Button attempts a steal, BB raises BTN steal attempt and BTN folds"

Given those two definitions, it seems to me that the value for fold vs resteal is incorrect, b/c for the two hands that I listed, the player has not even attempted a steal in the first place.

4. The two hands you posted do not qualify as steals because there is a limper.

5. Originally Posted by louiscyphre
The two hands you posted do not qualify as steals because there is a limper.
Yes, that is correct. And that is why I think the above value for fold vs resteal is NOT correct. I think that fold vs resteal should still be null "-".

6. Fold vs Resteal is basically another term for Fold vs 3bet, i know its not technically correct but generally most people refer to a steal as an attempt to win the blinds in late position and so its just a naming issue, were synching all the stats in the hud and reports soon so that will take care of that confusion.

I dont think that someone is folding to a 3bet based on whether they raised when there was or wasnt a limper so having those seperated wouldnt make too much sense.

7. Originally Posted by morny
I dont think that someone is folding to a 3bet based on whether they raised when there was or wasnt a limper so having those seperated wouldnt make too much sense.
I was just going off of the definitions from FAQ.

If the calculation is going to stay that way, then the definition in FAQ needs to change.

Current defintion: "Fold VS Resteal - How often someone folds to a resteal (Example - Button attempts a steal, BB raises BTN steal attempt and BTN folds."

New definition: "Fold VS Resteal - How often someone folds to a resteal, or folds to any 3-bet after raising from a steal position. (Example 1 - Button attempts a steal, BB raises BTN steal attempt and BTN folds. Example 2 - Middle position limps, BTN raises, BB 3-bets... BTN folds.)"

EDIT: "Fold vs Resteal" is actually a misnomer, and "Fold steal-position raise to 3-bet" describes the stat well (but I do not know if the stat name can actually be changed, and I am not actually suggesting it either).

EDIT2: "Steal-position fold to 3bet" is even better.

8. Originally Posted by morny
I dont think that someone is folding to a 3bet based on whether they raised when there was or wasnt a limper so having those seperated wouldnt make too much sense.
Actually that makes a ton of difference because players will have vastly different ranges when open raises compared to raising a limper.

9. I saw a hand where the SB raised, the BB 3bet, and the SB folded. The SB Fold Vs resteal did not increase. So that is another surprise to me about this stat.

Now, based on what I saw, I no longer think that even "Steal-position fold to 3bet" is a good name. A good name would actually be "CO and BTN fold to 3bet."

The FAQ definition needs to be changed to: "Fold VS Resteal - How often someone folds to a resteal from CO or BTN only, or folds to any 3-bet after raising from CO or BTN only. (Example 1 - Button attempts a steal, BB raises BTN steal attempt and BTN folds. Example 2 - Middle position limps, BTN raises, BB 3-bets... BTN folds. Example 3 - It is NOT a fold vs resteal when SB open-raises, BB 3bets, and SB folds.)"

Is it possible to change the definition in FAQ to what I wrote above? I do not really care if the name changes or stays the same, but I would like the definition to be corrected.

10. Wait, I'm lost. Why did the Fold vs Resteal stat not increase when the SB raised and folded? Clearly, the calculation on that should be changed instead of the definition.

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