Not-so-tech savvy, partially color-blind, newb HUD user questions (MTT, MTS&G)

[acnjcrabby1]

I mainly play daily tournaments on Stars (big field MTT's, rebuys, and more lately, the 20, 10, and 5 table turbos). I've used HEM for @ 1 month now, and have just over 11,000 hands logged. I've been putting a lot of effort into learning how to use HEM, along with getting used to playing with a HUD. I'm going through all of the articles, reading forums, and am slowly learning what all the stats actually mean.

I'm not a freak multi-tabler (probably because I'm a huge note taker). I can only comfortably play 4-6 at a time, and I know for sure I have way too many stats on my HUD (14 to be exact). Though I don't really mind getting used to it that way. If I have to remove certain stats down the road (if I find them to be unimportant/irrelevant), that's fine. My main problem is assigning color ranges for tournament play.

I am partially color-blind, but that's not my biggest issue. Through experimenting with it, I found that I'm quickly able to differentiate between 6 different colors on the HUD without too much strain (though I can't tell you exactly what those colors are - "blue-ish", "pink-ish", etc.). I'm finding the biggest issue is figuring out what ranges to assign to the stats so I can then "use" the colors to identify players styles.

So I guess my main question is how to pinpoint overall playing styles (LAG, TAG, loose-passive, tight-passive) based on HUD stats with (usually) small sample sizes? Which stats would be best utilized for, say the turbo 180's on Stars (where you see a lot of the same grinders day in/day out)? Along with those stats, can you tell me what ranges to assign with them (or is that something I have to figure out myself)? What would be considered LAG/TAG/L-P/T-P?

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for the great product.

[_Loki_]

Hi acnjcrabby1 (how do you pronounce that ?)

My advice isn't specific to your game type because I don't mtt nor sng, but like you I'm a note demon...

All the below is just my opinion & personal experience - I am very much the learner too so bear that in mind...

** 11k hands ?
You have a very small amount of data so throw out all your HUD stats except the main ones:
ab name, hands, vp$ip, pfr, ag factor & possibly 3bet
you might want the new bb stat I guess
There are more people playing your game than you've got total hands !
with 14 stats you will lose your way & not understand how each stat influences the other stats

** Using HUD stats
This takes a lot of time & some effort on your part. I am still learning too & I find HEM is mostly useful for post-game analysis of MY GAME & how my stats compare with the big winners & losers at my stakes (I only 6max nlhe cash microstakes). The HUD stats are very deceptive & should be used with caution because they will not help you that much when you have a critical 'fold, raise, all-in or call (i hate calling)' decision to make. The notes you make are the thing.
In 6max I've found...
1] There's some crazy maniac players who should be spewing chips in my direction, but who are actually doing very well indeed & the secret they've got is controlled aggression & a good understanding of how to price out the action at each table (they WATCH the tables they play at)
2] Some very regular, multitabling players with absolutely spot-on perfect stats are HUGE losers. The reasons vary, but I notice that some of them have terrible post-flop 'instincts'. They pick up the bread & butter small pot steals & lose it all in the big pots because they haven't a clue about the dynamics of each of the 12-24 tables they are playing. Most of the 'successful' multitablers I come across have low & very low vpip/pfr & play abc 'fit or fold' poker. I guess they get by on the Stars fpp/vpp thing
My message is that colour ranges in the HUD are very limited in value

** Analysis
You could try this: create a few aliases in HEM & group player types in there to see how their stats average out. Run some filters & start grouping any players for whom you've got more than 100 hands. look at the ones who are in big profit & those in big loss & group them each in a different alias to see how they average out. Then look at individual players & see how they compare with your assumptions - you will be surprised

** Data
A big problem (& advantage) with online poker is the huge number of opponents. Make this work for you by specialising in a small area of poker. Thats why I ONLY 6max at one stake at specific times of day - that way I can more quickly build up my data on the opposition. If you spread your poker about your data will be diluted & less useful

[acnjcrabby1]

I appreciate the response Loki..... Firstly, the first part of my name is my abbreviated location (A.C., N.J = Atlantic City, New Jersey - crabby1 = I was a seafood cook for @ 8 years - almost every screenname I have has something "crab" in it)...... Second, I'll try to reply back in the order you did.

** 11K hands

- First, I think I should just tell you my setup, and you can telll me what you think.
Line1 - VPIP/PFR/Call Open/3bet
Line2 - Fold to 3bet/Raise 1st/Limp/limp-call/Cbet
Line3 - Fold to Cbet/Donk bet/Went to Showdown/Won at SD/# of Hands

Since most of the stats I need/want are associated with preflop/flop play, I tried to keep the HUD stats in that order (PF - flop - later streets). I eliminated the "abb name" stat because I think it just takes up space on my HUD. I know which display belongs to who just by where it is. I can also hover over it for the name if I get mixed up....... And, maybe I should put agg factor up there? (I don't really understand that stat, or the difference between that and agg%)....

- I definately should set up different HUDs for different MTT's (turbo180's and R&A's especially). But for the normal structured and/or deep(er) stacked tournaments, I find it hard to remove more than 4 (of my 14) stats.... I like being able to see how often someone folds to a 3bet, folds to a Cbet, etc... Even if someone has only folded to a Cbet 1 out 4 times, that seems like something I'd like to have right there. (Though I think I'm able to "hide" certain stats though until I have a decent enough sample - I recall something in the player preferences options - I'll figure that out)
As for the turbo180's, I can probably part with "Raise first", "limp-call", "went to showdown " and "won at showdown" (the showdown stats are pretty much only there for tourneys with rebuys)..... I'll take your advice though, and set up a very basic HUD until I get comfortable with those few stats.

** Using HUD stats
- I too think HEM is best used for post-game analysis. The main reason I bought it was so I can find/plug my own leaks. The HUD is just extra goodnesss as far as I'm concerned.

- The reason I don't mega-multi-table, besides the (maybe excessive) note-taking, is because I hate when tables overlap and block me from seeing action. I like seeing where and what the action is on all of my tables, all of the time.

- You said "colour ranges in the HUD are very limited in value". Really? Even after you understand how to classify someones style based on stats. (Example - if someone's PF stats are red and blue, they're loose pre - If they're yellow and green they're tight..... That's pretty much all I want the colors for - a quick reference "should I 3bet this guy from the SB?")

** Analysis

- I'm not sure what you mean by "create a few aliases in HEM & group player types in there to see how their stats average out".

** Data

- I do pretty much only play the same tournaments daily. Lately it's been the Turbo 180's, 90's, 45's, along with my usual $3 and $1 rebuy (best value small/micro MTT's online IMO). But, I understand what you mean about quickly building up data.

Sorry for writing you another novel here! I appreciate your help mate (I'm not English or Australian - Just a courtesy thing I guess )

Take care

[_Loki_]

I'll get back to you in a while - in the meantime buddy (sorry ) this explains Aliases:

http://faq.holdemmanager.com/questio...ame+%26+Alias+

In theory it's so if you are playing on say two poker sites & therefore using more than one name - you can combine the HH's for your two names under a name you made up (CrabsAreNotJustForXmas ? ) - you can then analyse your combined stats for the two sites

But...

Also you can create as many aliases as you like & add whatever player names you choose to each
The purpose might be to analyse average stats for various player types

You could have...

WinningLAGs, WinningTAGs, WinningNITs etc & do the same for losers

[acnjcrabby1]

Thanx man. I'll see what I can do. I appreciate all of your help.

PS. CrabsAreNotJustForXmas...... Is that a name you made up, or is it a real player somewhere? It sounds familiar, but is not me. If you wanna know my SN's, PM me and I'll give them to ya.

[_Loki_]

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Your HUD

Too much for me - I can't handle all that. Remember that I play 6max nlhe cash - I use this at the moment:
Abb name/ Winnings/Hands
VPIP/PFR/Agg factor/3bet

APPEARANCE. I play with most players stats set to just for that session rather than overall stats (I've reversed the standard background colours) & I switch between to see how they are playing compared with their average. I have default text set to grey so it doesn't scream at me.

ABB NAME: If you set Abb name to 2 decimals only the first 3 letters of the name are displayed - weird, but good. Someday without abb name you will be caught when a new guy sits in, but the HUD still displays the old guy... Also loads of players don't have rebuy set up at cash tables & when they get down to 25bb's or so they go bonkers with all-ins holding rubbish. Strange, but true. So I have Abb. Name go bright yellow at 25BB or less

WINNINGS: in $ & I have it go red for minus numbers & grey for plus numbers - this way I can quickly see on a cash table if a guy is up or down since I joined - useful because some players tilt a little when they are down & others start to loosen up when they have built a stack.

AGG FACTOR: [number of BETS + number of RAISES] divide by [number of CALLS] This is a very useful stat indeed
I think it's calculated for POST-FLOP ONLY
You should open HM & read the articles here:
Menu Bar > Help > Articles > Article 6 'Understanding how to use Post-flop statistics'
Definitions are here: http://208.109.95.123/faq/afmmain.aspx?faqid=155

POP UPS: I have simplified my HUD pop-ups to get the important extra info quickly when I need it just by hovering the mouse

COLOUR CODING: I have the bottom line stats set to grey for the normal range, red for low & green for high BUT the stats work together so a high AF for a tight player means something different from a LAG also with a high AF. It will take a long time for you to pin this down in your head - which is why I say keep the HUD simple

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DATA COLLECTION

This is a nightmare at microstakes. I have been doing a kind of personal datamining on PokerStars every day for the past two weeks by prefetching 24 tables all through the tables at my stakes from A to Z. Just collecting player names. There are roughly 230 to 300 6max tables running at one time & I did two passes of the tables today & increased my database of names from 11,933 to 12,510. I'm thinking there's maybe 20,000 players at my stakes in any one week & an unknown number of new names are leaving/joining that level all the time

What to do ?

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Digression central

That cooking crabs is no joke! I read about it in HOMICIDE - a year on the killing streets by David Simon (He created THE WIRE)

Undigressing into poker books I recommend POKER NATION by Andy Bellin for a true picture of the life (you may need to get it used) & Snyders tournament book of course

I made the crabs name up

[gunner109]

I use the same as loki. Like loki said your hud is way to busy for 6max my 2 cents.

[acnjcrabby1]

I don't play 6max..... I play MTT's

[The Minder]

No offence to any cash game players here, but any advice on HUD stats given to a MTT player by a cash game player is going to be wrong. So wrong it's almost guaranteed to turn any winning MTT player into a loosing player.

Having said that, and pissed off 3/4 of the forum, I'll give a brief explanation why.

First, ring game players don't have to worry about increasing blinds. If you sit in an MTT with a VPIP of 15 (pretty good for a ring game) you'll be blinded out of the tourney before level 3.

Second, MTTs are all about getting as many of your chips as possible into the pot PRE FLOP (emphasis added) rather than extracting 'value' on every street. By the way, tournies have chips, ring games have dollars hence stats like BB/100 are not only meaningless, they are |insert invective here|.

Third, what a villain did in a ring game yesterday, he will probably do again today and tomorrow, so his stats are consistent and outcomes predictable. What a villain did in an MTT yesterday has limited bearing on what he does in an MTT today and probably no bearing on what he does tomorrow.

Feel free to pm me and I'll give you some thoughts on stats and ranges.

[_Loki_]

My advice isn't specific to your game type because I don't mtt nor sng, but like you I'm a note demon...

Hi Minder. Why pm? I'd be interested in your ideas & observations on stats & ranges for mtt, sng or ring - it's all grist to the mill

post them here why don't you...