Positional 4bet range

[mikenxz]

Hi.
Sorry not sure what forum this goes in.
I was wondering how the positional 4bet range stats are calculated (4b range EP, MP etc)
Does it use the positional PFR combined with the positional raise 3bet%? This is what I thought it should but in practice the numbers are not working out for me, most of the time the 4bet range looks lower than it should be.
Thanks for your assistance.

[netsrak]

I'll forward this question

[RDB]

It uses the positional PFR but it does not use the overall positional PFR as this includes hands you 3bet/4bet which are not relevant for the calculation.

The calculation is (PFR unraised pot %) x (4Bet %).

[mikenxz]

Thanks for the help but does it use positional raise 3bet as well or overall 4bet? Either way the numbers are not working out for me.
EG for one player raise first in on the button is 56%, overall 4bet is 15, raise 3bet from btn is 19, 4bet range is 4.3. I don't see any combination of those numbers coming out as 4.3. Should it not be 8.4 or 10.64?
This would lead me to believe that the 4bet range includes other spots where we had the opportunity to cold 4bet (someone else PFR)
Is this true?

Thanks again for the help

[RDB]

You cannot use raise first in for this calculation as this will exclude all hands where a limper opened the pot. At the moment there is not a PFR unraised pot stat you can add to the reports but you can check the calculation by running this filter on a report.

More filters ---> Basic filters ---> Preflop Action Facing Hero ---> Select unopened, 1 limper and 2+ limpers (deselect 1 raiser e.t.c.)

With this filter the PFR in that report will be equal to "PFR unraised pot %" and if you multiply that by raise 3Bet% it will equal the 4bet range%.

[mikenxz]

Hi
I am using HM1.
Even doing that I don't see how the numbers line up.
For example when I filter UO/1+limpers for myself my BTN PFR is 49.8%, vs 3bet raise% on the BTN is 18.3% (both using the position report) but my 4bet range on the BTN is 4.3%. I think there is something missing here

Thanks so much for your assistance

[RDB]

Sorry but my earlier answers were in relation to HM2 as I did not notice that this thread I was referred to was in the HM1 forum. With regards to HM1 4Bet range is calculated against the overall positional PFR.

(PFR) x (vs 3Bet Raise%) = 4Bet range.

I have checked more than one database and the numbers are working out fine - see attached.

4betrange.PNG

For example for the button - 25.7 x 21.1% = 5.4%.

[mikenxz]

Ah I see and yeah those numbers work out for my DB also.
Personally I think it would be a much more useful stat if it used only unopened/limped pots. Filtering for these in my database almost doubles my 4bet ranges and these are the numbers I actually need to use when considering a 3b/4b spot

[RDB]

HM1 does not have a PFR unraised pot stat therefore it cannot calculate a 4bet range from it. HM2 has more stats vs HM1 and as a result of this some stats can now be calculated more accurately like 4Bet range.