Open Raise vs Preflop Positional Awareness
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  1. #1
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    Default Open Raise vs Preflop Positional Awareness

    Hello. I have an issue.
    The ideal value of Preflop Positional Awareness should be from 1.7 to 3.1. Particularly, the value from 2.63 to 3.1 gives maximum winrate (0.56BB/100). So, it had better to have this value within these frontiers.

    As I know, Preflop Positional Awareness is calculated this way: Open Raise EP/Open Raise BU.

    However, the ideal value of Open Raise EP should be from 9.2 to 19.5. Particularly, the value from 9.2 to 12.63 gives maximum winrate (0.4BB/100). And the ideal value of Open Raise BU should be from 35.8 to 52, and the value from 46.6 to 52 gives maximum winrate. Therefore, the of Preflop Positional Awareness should be 49/11,5 = 4,3 approximately. Even if we take 46.6 and 12.63, we get 46.6/12.63 = 3,7. This value is not included in optimal range and it is leak.

    How should I make my open raise range based on these contradictory values?

  2. #2
    Moderator Leak Buster Support's Avatar
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    Pre-flop positional awareness is open raise EP+mp/open raise CO+btn. Additionally the specific winrates for each value range merge between segment areas when taking the entire chunk of data at once based on sample sizing. Example, a range of 2-5 w/ bb of .5 has a sample of 50, where a range of 6-9 w/ bb of .8 has sample of 200. So when calculating these the 6-9 will have higher significance and impact the overal ideal range.

    Good question though.

  3. #3
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    Are you sure it is calculated EP+MP/CO+BU?

    From HM FAQ

    FAQ - Hold'em Manager (HM1) Poker Tracking Software :: Stats Definition for Report TAB

    In the Preflop By Position Section ...

    Preflop Positional Awareness Ratio of your PFR on the button vs PFR from early position when unopened

    So wouldn't that be... BU/EP

    That makes more since because it is a ratio calculation, not a percentage calculation.

    Also, when I run the numbers on HM, the BU/EP way taken by position matches up with the PPA number supplied in HM.

    Thanks!

  4. #4
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    Yes, we're positive. The above calculation - EP+MP/CO+BU, is still a ratio so I'm not sure what you mean, but it's correct.

  5. #5
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    The reason I ask is that I was comparing notes with a friend and his PPA was 0. Now he had played no hands from EP, but had played 1 hand from MP, so he should of had some PPA value.


    So I tried to see how HM2 calculated PPA. So from this month ...

    PPA = 6.36 (actual number in PPA column in HM2)

    With filters PFR=Yes Preflop Actions: Unopened

    EP=22
    MP=51
    CO=67
    BU=129

    In your formula (EP+MP)/(CO+BU) (22+51)/(67+129)=0.3724

    From HM Definition link above (BU)/(EP) (129)/(22) = 5.86

    If you reverse your formula to get a ratio, not a fraction, it is (CO+BU)/(EP+MP) (67+129)/(22+51)=2.684

    If I reverse the HM Definition (EP)/(BU) (22)/(129) = 0.1705

    So the only number that is close is the one from the HM Definition, but it is still off.


    The closest number I could calculate to be very close the PPA number in HM2 was ...

    With filters PFR=Yes Preflop Actions: Unopened, 1 Limper and 2+limpers

    EP=22
    MP=52
    CO=74
    BU=141

    From HM Definition (BU)/(EP) (141)/(22) = 6.409

    The 6.409 is very close to the 6.36 from HM2, but still I wonder how HM2 comes up with 6.36.

    Hopefully you can point out a mistake in my logic. I just find it odd the the HM2 documentation is different than the information you gave in this post. By the way, I like your formula better (EP+MP)/(CO+BU) because it is a more meaningful number, but I just can't see how it matches up with the PPA values in HM2

    Thanks for your support.

  6. #6
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    I found it!

    It is BU/EP.

    HM uses the percent values from the Leak Buster - Overall

    From my data for this month...

    Preflop Positional Awareness = 6.36

    Early UO PFR = 7.89
    Middle UO PFR = 12.6
    Cutoff UO PFR = 18.7
    Button UO PFR = 50.2

    In your formula (EP+MP)/(CO+BU) (7.89+12.6)/(18.7+50.2)=0.2973

    From HM Definition link above (BU)/(EP) (50.2)/(7.89) = 6.36


    Therefore Preflop Positional Awareness = (BU)/(EP) in HM2

  7. #7
    Moderator Leak Buster Support's Avatar
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    No, that's not the correct formula. I'm not sure where you're getting this info - maybe they simplified a comment about it somewhere, but what we posted is correct. You need to set a filter for 6-max to 5-6 players or for full ring to 7+ players to get the same numbers. When you do, Leak Buster and HM2 will match. We got the original formula directly from them and we're using the same info.

  8. #8
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    Here are my updated numbers for the month.

    PPA.jpg

    Please show me how (EP+MP)/(CO+BU)

    My calculations show ...

    Preflop Positional Awareness = 5.95

    Early UO PFR = 8.16
    Middle UO PFR = 12.6
    Cutoff UO PFR = 19.3
    Button UO PFR = 48.6

    In your formula (EP+MP)/(CO+BU) (8.16+12.6)/(19.3+48.6)=.3057

    From HM Definition link above (BU)/(EP) (48.6)/(8.16) = 5.95

    Please show me where my numbers are wrong. Also, I suggest you try the calculations with your own data.

    In regards to the link, it is from the FAQ section about stats in HM2.

    Please check it out

    PPA2.jpg

    FAQ - Hold'em Manager (HM1) Poker Tracking Software :: Stats Definition for Report TAB

    Thanks

  9. #9
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    Here are my updated numbers for the month.

    PPA.jpg

    Please show me how (EP+MP)/(CO+BU)

    My calculations show ...

    Preflop Positional Awareness = 5.95

    Early UO PFR = 8.16
    Middle UO PFR = 12.6
    Cutoff UO PFR = 19.3
    Button UO PFR = 48.6

    In your formula (EP+MP)/(CO+BU) (8.16+12.6)/(19.3+48.6)=.3057

    From HM Definition link (BU)/(EP) (48.6)/(8.16) = 5.95
    Please show me where my numbers are wrong. Also, I suggest you try the calculations with your own data.

    In regards to the link, it is from the FAQ section about stats in HM2.

    Please check it out

    PPA2.jpg

    FAQ - Hold'em Manager (HM1) Poker Tracking Software :: Stats Definition for Report TAB

    Thanks

  10. #10
    Moderator Leak Buster Support's Avatar
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    Again, you need to set data point filters for 6-max and full ring. We have already checked all of this. That report you're showing in HM2 is from our calculations and our report. The link you're showing is from out dated HM1 info, and obviously the calc posted needs to be reversed, CO+BN/EP+MP.

    When you set the filters like I mentioned above, the data will match exactly.

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