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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by udbrky View Post
    We won't import incomplete data. There is nothing we can do about their decision to do this.
    It is like complete data... player fold and that's it. It is same as if the hand is played on other table and HERO don't sit on the table and therefore don't get hisotry for that hand.

    Quote Originally Posted by fozzy71 View Post
    This new policy of not providing all cash game hand histories while seated will significantly skew most of your stats.
    It skew most of the opponents stats if there is a small sample size, but with big sample size the data will be close to the real and therefore still useful.

    If all hands are imported, players will still be able to analyze their own game, check played hands, EV, winrate, redline, 3bet %, blind play and etc. If you stop importing all cash hands, this will be the same as no HUD and no Hand History for cash games.

    Quote Originally Posted by fozzy71 View Post
    We will continue to support Microgaming tournaments as all players are provided with complete hand histories.
    Why not continue to support cash games with a note, that opponents stats will not be exact, but players can still use HM2 to track their play ??

    I think that would be the better decision instead of stopping importing cash HHs at all.

    Also if you start support HUD for alias (which is requested 4 years ago here -> merge hud stats of two players on two different sites? ), people who had older alias for the opponents (or accumulate nicknames over time) can add them and use HUD during play or when analyzing opponents.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by fozzy71 View Post
    This new policy of not providing all cash game hand histories while seated will significantly skew most of your stats.
    Tell us how? Because it makes zero sense.

    Every time hero contributes to the pot (posts blinds/limps/opens/calls/raises) whole hand history is saved to hard drive. Also every time hero folds short-version of handhistory is saved (with info that hero folded in given hand).

    So if HEM imports these short hand histories (when hero folds) all hero stats will be correct.
    Last edited by Greg20; 04-19-2017 at 07:30 PM.

  3. #23
    Graphics Guru fozzy71's Avatar
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    Even your own stats will be incorrect. When the hand history is incomplete when you fold, it means all preflop folds will not be tracked. That will force all preflop stats such as Fold to Steal to be 0, or 3Bet % to be 100% and so on. These stats will never even-out, because the data for folds is incomplete.


    The way we tracks hands requires that the hand must be played out. We track every cent that is invested in the pot, and when the data is incomplete it means we can not account where all the money went. Similarly, when someone raises or calls preflop our system expects to see their further actions. Along with stats the filters are affected the same way.

  4. #24
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    That sucks.

    Thanks for explaining.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by fozzy71 View Post
    Even your own stats will be incorrect. When the hand history is incomplete when you fold, it means all preflop folds will not be tracked. That will force all preflop stats such as Fold to Steal to be 0, or 3Bet % to be 100% and so on. These stats will never even-out, because the data for folds is incomplete.
    It tracks hands when you are on the blinds (because you already put $ in to the pot). So some of those stats will be somewhat correct. I hope there will be ante games and those problems will not be presents (because ante = contributing to the pot).

    Quote Originally Posted by fozzy71 View Post
    The way we tracks hands requires that the hand must be played out.
    There can not be some easy fix to import those folded hands? I read in PT4 forum that "This type of change would take months of work and cost a lot of money." so... I think that I already know the answer.

    I think that players would want some stats (you still can make general assumptions) versus no HUD at all.



    So... basically players had 3 choices:
    - don't play on microgaming
    - don't update HM2 and to play only on microgaming (until microgaming make some wired change again).

    P.S. PT4 will not support those hands either. I just read it in PT4 forum.
    Last edited by rPaguHaP; 04-20-2017 at 05:24 AM.

  6. #26
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    a legit loss-loss-loss scenario right here.

  7. #27
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    Two things to clarify about Microgaming's new policy on cash game hand histories:
    1. Microgaming no longer writes full hands when you do not contribute to the pot. No matter what we do, we cannot provide a HUD as villain stats are skewed and unreliable.
    2. Now when you do not contribute to the pot they write a partial hand that shows you folded. This would allow us to import heros hands for review but would require significant changes to our backend.

    Two things to also clarify in our communications to customers about this:
    1. We believe that customers have a right to a full audit/hand history as long as they paid the blinds and are dealt into the hand. Microgaming has taken this right away and is the only site/network to do so
    2. Customers can continue to use version 8454 or version 8465 which will import the full hands. We are just ending cash game support from this point forward.
    Last edited by fozzy71; 04-26-2017 at 08:04 AM. Reason: added hyperlink to most recent stable and beta build before this beta update

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by napsus View Post
    the HH is there with the fold and no info on opponents, so would be cool to have that imported to keep the stats in line. No harm, no foul to anyone.
    Little missleading info is way better than no info. Would be great to have at least those stats.

  9. #29
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    How can I undo the latest update?

    Thanks in advance.

  10. #30
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    The previous build is linked in the latest release thread - http://forums.holdemmanager.com/hm2-...rs-update.html

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